Author Topic: How do Christians comprehend the iconic duo of free will and predestination?  (Read 249 times)

Offline Goon (OP)

The God of the Bible is an ignorant one. He left two newborn adults in a magical garden, with the ability to doom mankind through coercion. An evil snake, that he was shocked by, tricked them into wanting to know things. Sin in the garden before the fall of man. Satan wasn't even cast down till Ezekial, so it wasn't him. Even if Christians can prove in the book that it was Satan, how didn't God specifically blame satan and not just curse snakes to no longer walk? lol. The Bible is just stupid. His ignorance doomed mankind, yet we're to blame. The God of Christianity is actually quite scary. Imagine that reality? Yikes. It's good that the idea of God is a dumb one, and that Noah's Ark is their answer to evolution. But back on point, God knows, yet he doesn't. The end of this process brings people with a brain to this point: God of the Bible is shown to send billions to hell, so he can make some predestined friends for Heaven the hard way. The entire thing just makes me want to be religious, so i can be too stupid to think. That must be nice. Jeesh. How is this seriously believed by 3 billion-ish people?

I might as well make another point: A universe from nothing can be scientifically explained by saying, that we as a species have been stunted by religious ideology to the point of just unearthing reality within the last 200 years. Reality is still barely enjoyed by most people. We're just now making progress. A universe from nothing can obviously be proven by studying the majority of people and their priorities. Most people want Jesus or Allah, without ever being honest. If einstein was born 200 years from now, we'd have the answer. He couldn't make ever inch of progress in his life time after religion shit all over our collective consciousness for so long, and continued to up until his death. We're just now breaking free. It's obvious that a universe from nothing is quantum physics on a level Einstein would need some help prior to get to. anywho.. hello atheists, much love. the idea that outside space and physics lurks God in eternal utopia, is an idea i can't get behind. Time is a little dicey of a concept, but again, we're only so smart. A God from nothing is much dumber. Super powers, after existing forever decided to get into gardening.. etc... lol
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 12:51:11 AM by Goon »
You evolutionists are spoiling our fun!

Offline Baruch

Religions were formed when the universe seemed much smaller.  Astronomy did blow the whole thing up, like the bragging frog in Aesop's fable.

Voltaire said .. “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities”

Theologians love paradox, and counting angels on the heads of pins ;-)

My POV is free will, not predestination or predetermination.  Those two came out of theology, not from the Bible for example.  Greek geeks thinking too hard.
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Offline aitm

Absolutely. Religion is one crazy ass notion. I could get behind the idea of a "creator type thingie" but there has to be a better answer than, "he has always been and existed before everything". That to me is the deal breaker. Perhaps the word "everything" is being used subjectively as in, everything that pertains to living animals on this particular planet...that could possibly gain a subtle nod. But to exist prior to anything and to have always exist somehow with knowledge of everything that will exist before he could conceive the idea of any of it, is a little to way out there for me. It would be like suggesting a Squirrel could conjure up the Titanic complete with buffet baskets of plastic wrapped crackers, and engines complete with water dampening prop shafts.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Most Christians redefine predestination to mean "God's foreknowledge." It's a yet another way Christians let God off the hook for being an inhumane monster, even though the Bible clearly says that he prevents people from coming to the faith by hardening their hearts. Paul even directly addressed their number one objection to predestination in Romans 9:19-21, but that just goes right over their heads.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Absolutely. Religion is one crazy ass notion. I could get behind the idea of a "creator type thingie" but there has to be a better answer than, "he has always been and existed before everything". That to me is the deal breaker. Perhaps the word "everything" is being used subjectively as in, everything that pertains to living animals on this particular planet...that could possibly gain a subtle nod. But to exist prior to anything and to have always exist somehow with knowledge of everything that will exist before he could conceive the idea of any of it, is a little to way out there for me. It would be like suggesting a Squirrel could conjure up the Titanic complete with buffet baskets of plastic wrapped crackers, and engines complete with water dampening prop shafts.

Gods as ancient aliens ... of course wouldn't have existed forever, and wouldn't be responsible for the Big Bang (if that is what happened).  They would simply be more advanced, maybe whale people who go harpooning for humans ;-)  And yes, magic tricks are fine, but conjuring is a stage trick ... it isn't what is appears to be (it is real however).  When our view of gods were more modest, and our knowledge of astronomy etc much less, a conventional god was more reasonable sounding.  However mankind by their very nature, are unreasonable.
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I advocate reading the Bible - maybe it should even be mandatory for everyone. It was the Bible itself that convinced me that it wasn't anything like the word of any God. It couldn't possibly be God's method of communicating with us puny humans, it's entirely too confusing and contradictory. And it makes God out to be a real monster, even worse than any of the other horrible monsters people have invented. If the Bible's God really existed as described, life would be completely intolerable, and I, for one, wouldn't allow myself to live in such a world. Hell, the world as it is, without such a God, is bad enough!

Quote from: Joseph Lewis
It is our duty to expose the Bible. We must continue to tell the truth about the Bible. We must continue to enlighten the people. And if after the true facts are known, there are some who still insist the Bible is good enough for them, they are welcome to it.
Quote from: Luther Burbank
Let us read the Bible without the ill-fitting colored spectacles of theology, just as we read other books, using our own judgement and reason, listening to the voice within, not to the noisy babel without. Most of us possess discriminating reasoning powers. Can we use them or must we be fed by others like babies?
Quote from: Robert G. Ingersoll
If a man would follow, today, the teachings of the Old Testament, he would be a criminal. If he would follow strictly the teachings of the New, he would be insane.
God Not Found
"And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world... then He made the earth round...and laughed and laughed and laughed...."
unknown

Offline Baruch

Yes, the Bible, as an anthology of ancient Jewish literature (with lots of chutzpah) ... isn't for Gentiles, and isn't for children.  That is why most Christians only let the kiddies get educated via those stick on felt board arrangements led by a little old lady teaching a very juvenile version of the stories ;-)  When my daughter visited another church, when she was about 6, and they were teaching reading by having the kids read directly from the actual adult Bible, I disapproved.  Tricks ARE for kids.  A Scotch breakfast (oatmeal and scotch) is for adults.

Ancient pagans in teaching their various myths, you have to wonder what age they started doing that storytelling.  Probably pretty young, because the puritanical POV came out of the Middle East, not from violence and orgy filled pagan Europe ;-)

In the South, Sunday School was originally for adults, to teach them to read and write, using the Bible.  That and for wives to keep their husbands away from the moonshine, for a short while.
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My Bible has warning stickers all over it, just in case any kids ever get hold of it.
God Not Found
"And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world... then He made the earth round...and laughed and laughed and laughed...."
unknown

  That and for wives to keep their husbands away from the moonshine, for a short while.
I bet that didn't work very well...
God Not Found
"And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be found in all corners of the world... then He made the earth round...and laughed and laughed and laughed...."
unknown

Offline Baruch

I bet that didn't work very well...

Well they did like the preaching, if the preaching mentioned the heretical view that the reason Blacks are dark, is because of their descent from Cain.  Doesn't take much education or sobriety to follow a simple sermon ;-)  These were simple people, as one of our members repeatedly mentions.
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Online Cavebear

Well they did like the preaching, if the preaching mentioned the heretical view that the reason Blacks are dark, is because of their descent from Cain.  Doesn't take much education or sobriety to follow a simple sermon ;-)  These were simple people, as one of our members repeatedly mentions.

Africans are dark because they evolved a melanin resistance to strong sunlight.  Africans who left Africa into Asia needed more sunlight exposure and those who genetically had less did better.  The more genetically mutated ones with less melanin did better.  Eventually all the successful ones in higher altitudes were whiter to absorb as much sunlight as possible. 

Skin color has nothing to do with superiority, just required sunlight exposure.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Africans are dark because they evolved a melanin resistance to strong sunlight.  Africans who left Africa into Asia needed more sunlight exposure and those who genetically had less did better.  The more genetically mutated ones with less melanin did better.  Eventually all the successful ones in higher altitudes were whiter to absorb as much sunlight as possible. 

Skin color has nothing to do with superiority, just required sunlight exposure.

Yes, I think everyone here knows that.  The relatives of a certain AF member, don't read our stuff.  Too busy playin' the banjo.
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Online Cavebear

Yes, I think everyone here knows that.  The relatives of a certain AF member, don't read our stuff.  Too busy playin' the banjo.

If everyone here knows that, I am glad.  But most people don't seem to.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

If everyone here knows that, I am glad.  But most people don't seem to.

The wider world is dark, we must spread our Light.  Don't look up, it is a giant boy with a giant magnifying glass ... aiiii!
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Online Cavebear

The wider world is dark, we must spread our Light.  Don't look up, it is a giant boy with a giant magnifying glass ... aiiii!

You seem to be much more afraid of the wide world than I am.  And save your weak humor for others. please. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950