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Impeach Trump????

Started by fencerider, September 30, 2017, 11:04:56 PM

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Cavebear

#255
Quote from: Mike Cl on May 25, 2018, 09:24:54 AM
You do have a choice.  Become like Charlie------or die.  Take your pick........................

Was that the choice?  I think the idea was that we (collectively) are both "Charlies".  Some struggling through life, and some easing along understanding almost everything.  The point of the story, (beyond the obvious exaggerations) was that there was a Charlie who drops dishes and barely understands written words, and a Charlie who can think brilliantly.  And the 3rd party was the teacher who saw both sides of all of us.

And let me say that I don't ignore the surface level of the story from the teacher's POV.  It is all tragic on the surface.  I feel for her at the start, the middle, and the end.  When Charlie returns to the class at the end, I cry for her too.  She "knew him when" at both extremes, and saw what he "could have been".

And don't forget to cry for Algernon...  He briefly sensed that he knew something more than other mice, and lost that, as Charlie did.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 11:31:19 AM
Very nice analysis.

Oh crap, now I guess I have to take you off "ignore"...  For a while...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 11:37:35 AM
Oh crap, now I guess I have to take you off "ignore"...  For a while...

If you are a literature critic, do you have to put a dragon fang thru it, because it is a horucrux?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on May 25, 2018, 11:42:32 AM
If you are a literature critic, do you have to put a dragon fang thru it, because it is a horucrux?

Of course. As we drink the Amontillado.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

trdsf

Quote from: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 12:37:07 AM
I read 'Flowers For Algernon' when it was first published was published in 1966 and was joint winner of that year's Nebula Award for Best Novel (the original publication was before my reading time).  I cried at the end.  I did not, however think of it in terms of aging.  I was too young.  I can understand it in that way now though.
You and me both.  Although I read it as a SF-horror story.  Back in the mid-70s when I first read it, I was coming at it as someone who had always not only relied upon, but prized his own intellect.  It was with a mounting sense of genuine terror that I continued to read back down through the descent, hoping for something to stop the fall, knowing that it wasn't going to happen because it wasn't that kind of book.

I have a copy, but I approach it only gingerly and occasionally, and it's probably why I overreact internally when I do something innocent but dumb like forget my phone or my rain jacket or, as I've done a couple times now, that I've put water on to boil and come into the kitchen only to see about half an inch of rapidly evaporating water... time for a proper tea kettle with a whistle, I guess.  Walking into the living room and wondering what the hell I was doing in there really frightens me when it happens.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Cavebear

Quote from: trdsf on May 25, 2018, 12:56:22 PM
You and me both.  Although I read it as a SF-horror story.  Back in the mid-70s when I first read it, I was coming at it as someone who had always not only relied upon, but prized his own intellect.  It was with a mounting sense of genuine terror that I continued to read back down through the descent, hoping for something to stop the fall, knowing that it wasn't going to happen because it wasn't that kind of book.

I have a copy, but I approach it only gingerly and occasionally, and it's probably why I overreact internally when I do something innocent but dumb like forget my phone or my rain jacket or, as I've done a couple times now, that I've put water on to boil and come into the kitchen only to see about half an inch of rapidly evaporating water... time for a proper tea kettle with a whistle, I guess.  Walking into the living room and wondering what the hell I was doing in there really frightens me when it happens.

That, my friend, is amazing!  I never thought of it that way.  While it is difficult to recall precisely where some story line turned, I remember having chills up my spine when Charlie understood he was beyond the comprehension of Ms. Kinnian.  But I still considered it a sci-fi plot though a tragedy.

Thinking of it now with your suggestions, I can see it as a sort of modern gothic tragedy.  Scary brilliant person, caring average person, ascent and fall...

As a teen though, I think it made me think of learning and the fear of failing, but also such profound sadness for both Charlie and Algernon.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

trdsf

Quote from: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 01:09:42 PM
That, my friend, is amazing!  I never thought of it that way.  While it is difficult to recall precisely where some story line turned, I remember having chills up my spine when Charlie understood he was beyond the comprehension of Ms. Kinnian.  But I still considered it a sci-fi plot though a tragedy.
Oh, I know exactly the line that did me in: "Algernon bit me."  Just those three little words, that foreshadowed everything that was going to happen.  I got a certain tightness in the chest and tremor up the spine just typing it out.  And what made it worse was that you knew Charlie knew what it meant.  It's like being told you have Alzheimer's while you still have enough of yourself left to fully grasp what that means.
"My faith in the Constitution is whole, it is complete, it is total, and I am not going to sit here and be an idle spectator to the diminution, the subversion, the destruction of the Constitution." -- Barbara Jordan

Cavebear

Quote from: trdsf on May 25, 2018, 01:22:51 PM
Oh, I know exactly the line that did me in: "Algernon bit me."  Just those three little words, that foreshadowed everything that was going to happen.  I got a certain tightness in the chest and tremor up the spine just typing it out.  And what made it worse was that you knew Charlie knew what it meant.  It's like being told you have Alzheimer's while you still have enough of yourself left to fully grasp what that means.

Yeah.  I had a different line.  Something about Ms. Killian talking to Charlie about a book and she could understand the connectiond he was making.

Like in Ender's Game when you first realized the "game" was real.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cavebear on May 25, 2018, 01:46:30 PM
Yeah.  I had a different line.  Something about Ms. Killian talking to Charlie about a book and she could understand the connectiond he was making.

Like in Ender's Game when you first realized the "game" was real.
As I travel down this road, I grow to appreciate something my mom would say, time to time.  'Growing old is not for the weak!' 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 25, 2018, 03:06:33 PM
As I travel down this road, I grow to appreciate something my mom would say, time to time.  'Growing old is not for the weak!'

MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Quote from: Cavebear on May 29, 2018, 05:28:21 AM
MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't.

My Mom did the same, including golf.  And smoking like a chimney.  She last golfed when she was 86.  She smoked for 75 years.  They don't make moms like that anymore ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on May 29, 2018, 06:46:14 AM
My Mom did the same, including golf.  And smoking like a chimney.  She last golfed when she was 86.  She smoked for 75 years.  They don't make moms like that anymore ;-)

Congrats to both our Moms.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Mike Cl

Quote from: Cavebear on May 29, 2018, 05:28:21 AM
MY Mom ended that sentence with "for sissies" but the thought is the same.  She golfed until she couldn't, she cooked until she couldn't, she walked until she couldn't.  She wrote letters until she couldn't then bought a non-computer memory machine for typing (a "Brother"?), then used a pen held in both hands when that was all she could manage.  Until she couldn't.
Seems like our mothers had much in common.  If that is accurate, then we were lucky sons.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Cavebear

Quote from: Mike Cl on May 29, 2018, 12:17:56 PM
Seems like our mothers had much in common.  If that is accurate, then we were lucky sons.

Yeah, "good Mom genes".
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!