Author Topic: Impeach Trump????  (Read 9804 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #150 on: December 26, 2017, 03:40:37 AM »
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Well I will admit that Clarence Darrow was a sharper butter knife than William Jennings Bryan.  But both were old men at the Scopes trial.  And you are still wrong about the Cross Of Gold speech.

Took you 5 posts to get to this? 

You want our currency to be based on SILVER?  You've got to be jesting (as usual). 

The best thing Bryan did for his reputation was die after the Scopes trial.  Otherwise he would be a minor footnote in history.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #151 on: December 26, 2017, 08:51:15 AM »
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Took you 5 posts to get to this? 

You want our currency to be based on SILVER?  You've got to be jesting (as usual). 

The best thing Bryan did for his reputation was die after the Scopes trial.  Otherwise he would be a minor footnote in history.

Actually not ... US currency should be based on cow patties.  And what about all this hatred for someone who died before you were born, and you never met?  Well maybe the stupid Scopes trial is triggering ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #152 on: December 26, 2017, 11:14:13 AM »
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Actually not ... US currency should be based on cow patties.  And what about all this hatred for someone who died before you were born, and you never met?  Well maybe the stupid Scopes trial is triggering ;-)

You think that I shouldn't care about people who died before I was born?  Lincoln died before I was born.  John Adams died before I was born.  Somewhere there was a male and a female who were first considered "human" (at different times) before I was born.

And untold bloody butchering theists died before I was born.  They all affected my life, so I care about them. 

And cow patties make bad currency.  Otherwise, dung beetles would be the bankers.  Hmmm, perhaps... But silver did not then and does not now.  The economists at the time of Bryan realized that.  Which is why you don't see Bryan's Head in the Futurama Hall of President Heads (or lists in history books today).

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #153 on: December 26, 2017, 01:36:15 PM »
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You think that I shouldn't care about people who died before I was born?  Lincoln died before I was born.  John Adams died before I was born.  Somewhere there was a male and a female who were first considered "human" (at different times) before I was born.

And untold bloody butchering theists died before I was born.  They all affected my life, so I care about them. 

And cow patties make bad currency.  Otherwise, dung beetles would be the bankers.  Hmmm, perhaps... But silver did not then and does not now.  The economists at the time of Bryan realized that.  Which is why you don't see Bryan's Head in the Futurama Hall of President Heads (or lists in history books today).

I almost had you worshipping Kephra, the Egyptian beetle god who pushes the Sun across the sky!

According to the US Constitution, silver is money, and the mint simply is to take silver provided by the private sector, and Mint it into coin. with a small surcharge back to the Mint.  Copper coin was the only Federal money, provided as a public convenience.  Small quantities of gold coin were also minted on private sector demand, but we didn't have much gold to share initially.

The gold standard was an invention of the Bank of England, and really got going in 1816 after the end of the Napoleonic wars.  The British Empire and their Bank, screwed the US and everyone else for decades after that, first with loans to the various US Federal Banks (predecessors to the Federal Reserve) then screwed over Lincoln (loans in the form of interest bearing currency (some was fiat, but some was interest bearing bonds), and by 1871 had the US by the short hairs.  This tightening of the screws by the British, continued from 1871 until 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created, so that the US could help the British Empire in their predations, though it mostly went to support WW I.  WW I broke the back of the Empires in general, and the post WW I attempt to return to the gold standard, failed, because of the degree of breakdown in the British Empire.  Pound Sterling (aka Silver) was also debased as a result of WW I.  The Europeans never recovered enough before WW II started.  US (FDR) control of the gold markets from 1933, let to the Bretton-Woods system (designed to help Europe recover further thru stable Atlantic trade and loans) in 1944, and which ended in 1971, thanks to France, and the Vietnam War.

So that is all fantasy huh?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #154 on: December 26, 2017, 02:28:14 PM »
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I almost had you worshipping Kephra, the Egyptian beetle god who pushes the Sun across the sky!

According to the US Constitution, silver is money, and the mint simply is to take silver provided by the private sector, and Mint it into coin. with a small surcharge back to the Mint.  Copper coin was the only Federal money, provided as a public convenience.  Small quantities of gold coin were also minted on private sector demand, but we didn't have much gold to share initially.

The gold standard was an invention of the Bank of England, and really got going in 1816 after the end of the Napoleonic wars.  The British Empire and their Bank, screwed the US and everyone else for decades after that, first with loans to the various US Federal Banks (predecessors to the Federal Reserve) then screwed over Lincoln (loans in the form of interest bearing currency (some was fiat, but some was interest bearing bonds), and by 1871 had the US by the short hairs.  This tightening of the screws by the British, continued from 1871 until 1913, when the Federal Reserve was created, so that the US could help the British Empire in their predations, though it mostly went to support WW I.  WW I broke the back of the Empires in general, and the post WW I attempt to return to the gold standard, failed, because of the degree of breakdown in the British Empire.  Pound Sterling (aka Silver) was also debased as a result of WW I.  The Europeans never recovered enough before WW II started.  US (FDR) control of the gold markets from 1933, let to the Bretton-Woods system (designed to help Europe recover further thru stable Atlantic trade and loans) in 1944, and which ended in 1971, thanks to France, and the Vietnam War.

So that is all fantasy huh?

No, your preaching to the choir in a way.  I know the history.  But we went off the silver standard a century ago and the gold standard a half ago.  Currency is mostly fictitious now, just accepted IOUs.  Although I have some silver certificates stashed as $2 bills.  Only for history and humor. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #155 on: December 26, 2017, 02:43:08 PM »
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No, your preaching to the choir in a way.  I know the history.  But we went off the silver standard a century ago and the gold standard a half ago.  Currency is mostly fictitious now, just accepted IOUs.  Although I have some silver certificates stashed as $2 bills.  Only for history and humor.

Yes ... history had moved on, but that means the status quo approaches death ever more closely.  Technically we went off the domestic silver market in 1965, to fund the Vietnam War.  The international gold standard was badly hurt from 1914 - 1944, enough that the domestic gold standard couldn't hold up.  The artificially fixed price of silver and gold (relative to FR notes) was ... a fools game in the long run ... fantasy of omnipotent governments, not unlike the Euro now.  LBJ knew that doing both guns and butter was inflationary.  So how does the death of the present, which dies each second, sound to you?  Tick-tock, tick-tock.  Entropy is real, progress is the delusion that on net, we can borrow from Peter to pay Paul, and exponentially too.  Progress only seems to happen, because we aren't doing the accounting properly (including all streams).  We privatize the gains and socialize the losses.
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Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #156 on: December 26, 2017, 03:16:11 PM »
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You are spinning out of control again, Baruch...  Get a grip.  Breathe deeply and often. 
Maybe a bit less LSD would also be in order...
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"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."
Lily Tomlin

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #157 on: December 26, 2017, 03:21:42 PM »
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Maybe a bit less LSD would also be in order...

Zombie thread much?  I get high on myself, saves a lot of money and police questioning.
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Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #158 on: December 26, 2017, 03:46:49 PM »
Oh, I'm so proud of you!
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"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."
Lily Tomlin

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #159 on: December 27, 2017, 11:35:55 PM »
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Well I will admit that Clarence Darrow was a sharper butter knife than William Jennings Bryan.  But both were old men at the Scopes trial.  And you are still wrong about the Cross Of Gold speech.
are you talking about microScopes, teleScopes, or oscilloScopes? and why would you take any of them apart with a butter knife?


I find the arguments between Baruch and Cavebear to always be entertaining. Baruch: an enigma because he is a wildcard. Cavebear: a man that has the freedom of not ever being brain-washed by religion.


I just read that part of the Constitution again. It says Congress has the responsibility to coin money for the U.S.. It also says that it is up to Congress to determine the current coin of the realm. (no mention of silver regarding Congress) After that is says the states are not allowed to coin money. Interestingly enough, it says that the states are only allowed to pay debts with gold or silver.

My interpretation is that Congress can make paper money if they want to (to pay the U.S. debts to the states) but the states can only pay their debts to the U.S. with gold or silver. Its a set-up for some ridiculous problems.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2017, 11:38:36 PM by fencerider »
not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #160 on: December 28, 2017, 06:36:25 AM »
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are you talking about microScopes, teleScopes, or oscilloScopes? and why would you take any of them apart with a butter knife?


I find the arguments between Baruch and Cavebear to always be entertaining. Baruch: an enigma because he is a wildcard. Cavebear: a man that has the freedom of not ever being brain-washed by religion.


I just read that part of the Constitution again. It says Congress has the responsibility to coin money for the U.S.. It also says that it is up to Congress to determine the current coin of the realm. (no mention of silver regarding Congress) After that is says the states are not allowed to coin money. Interestingly enough, it says that the states are only allowed to pay debts with gold or silver.

My interpretation is that Congress can make paper money if they want to (to pay the U.S. debts to the states) but the states can only pay their debts to the U.S. with gold or silver. Its a set-up for some ridiculous problems.

Yes, the Federal government was tied down, with only excise taxes for income.  The Treasury needed accepted money for its own use (gold and silver).  And of course the Feds will always exploit the States (one of the reasons for the Civil War).

Eventually, that exploitation was extended to the Income Tax.  You are only allowed to pay it with US currency, so you have to get some, to pay your taxes.  You can't use BitCoin.

How did early Congress interpret that provision?  Spanish milled dollars (piece of eight) was the definition of a dollar.  Coinage act of 1792.  George Washington himself contributed his silverware from Mt Vernon, for the first half dismes (dimes).  The Constitution is always undermined, by "applicable legislation" as implied by how each term is interpreted by Congress.  And the WH undermines, by using signing statements (ukase).

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This also regulated the relative value of gold vs silver, which created problems (the gold coin got exported to Britain for melting, because the gold was undervalued relative to silver).  Of course Congress changed their mind.  Hamilton argued for a central bank and got it.  America had been burned by Continental Currency during the Revolution.

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The Spanish milled dollar remained legal currency in the US until 1857.  Yes, Congress can define a dollar as such and such a fraction of BitCoin.
---------
The Constitutional amendment to define the Fed and Income Tax is an enigma, basically a blank check on you!  It was sold because of it's modest amount and it would only apply to the very rich.

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The first US central tank issued only bank-to-bank notes.  They weren't for circulation.  That didn't start until 1914.

Basically, our great-grandparents enslaved us to J P Morgan and Congressional hubris (spending like a drunk sailor).

« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 06:51:54 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #161 on: January 10, 2018, 01:58:54 PM »
Wouldn't it be interesting if the US govt announced that bitcoin is an illegal pyramid scheme?  CRASH!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #162 on: January 10, 2018, 02:35:52 PM »
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Wouldn't it be interesting if the US govt announced that bitcoin is an illegal pyramid scheme?  CRASH!

All governments are illegal pyramid schemes ... just ask Pharaoh.  But as long as the government has the monopoly of violence ... best to go along.

If there ever is a regular block-chain money, it will only come from the Federal Reserve or Bank of England ... not from private parties.
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Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #163 on: February 06, 2018, 01:34:34 PM »
Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


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I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!
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"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up."
Lily Tomlin

Re: Impeach Trump????
« Reply #164 on: February 06, 2018, 01:47:56 PM »
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Apparently it's treason to not clap for Chump at his state of the union speech:


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I mean, really!? I think Chump will soon find out exactly what the word "treason" means!
If only you would be right.  I think Trump invented teflon.  Nothing sticks.  Basically he is doing whatever he wants to whoever he wants to. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

 

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