Author Topic: NFL & Trump  (Read 761 times)

Online Mike Cl (OP)

NFL & Trump
« on: September 30, 2017, 12:59:20 PM »
Why is Trump attacking the NFL?  As he has stated time and again, he loves revenge.  And for him, it is not the tit-for-tat type; he want 10 times the damage done to them as what he precised as done to him.  So, why in this case? 
As the Washington Post put it:

In 1986, Trump convinced his fellow USFL owners to launch what amounted to a hostile takeover attempt: They moved the league’s schedule to the fall to compete directly with the NFL, then sued the NFL, alleging antitrust violations. Trump predicted to his fellow USFL owners that the lawsuit would result in a massive judgment — hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in damages from the NFL — that would force the NFL to offer to merge the leagues.
In the trial, NFL attorneys framed their case around Trump, arguing that the lawsuit was a charade orchestrated by Trump as a way to get into the NFL on the cheap. The argument worked.
“I thought he was extremely arrogant, and I thought that he was obviously trying to play the game,” juror Patricia Sibilia recalled in a telephone interview last year. “He wanted an NFL franchise. . . . The USFL was a cheap way in.”
The jury ruled that the NFL had violated antitrust law but concluded that the USFL’s financial struggles were of its own making and awarded only $1 in damages. In antitrust cases, damages are tripled, so Trump’s legal assault on the NFL won a grand total of $3.
The USFL folded.
“Only Donald Trump could somehow turn the behemoth of the NFL into an underdog,” said Michael Tollin, director of the ESPN documentary “Small Potatoes: Who Killed the USFL?”
Trump lost an estimated $22 million on the Generals. The Cowboys team — which Trump said he considered buying in 1983 but did not because you could succeed only “laterally” in the NFL — was sold in 1989 to Jerry Jones for $140 million. According to Forbes, the team, still owned by Jones, is now worth an estimated $4.8 billion, making it the world’s most valuable sports franchise.
After the USFL folded, Trump’s name arose periodically in discussions about NFL ownership. In 1988, he made a bid for the New England Patriots but ultimately bowed out. In 2014, Trump said he offered $1 billion for the Buffalo Bills, but he was bested by a $1.4 billion offer.

Trump is not complicated.  He is simply what he has always been.  An evil, evil creature.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2017, 09:27:37 PM »
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?

No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Online Mike Cl (OP)

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2017, 09:46:28 PM »
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?

No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...
I have no doubt you are wrong.  And I have steered you in the right direction.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2017, 10:17:36 PM »
I have no doubt you are wrong.  And I have steered you in the right direction.

Thanks Dad....
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Online Mike Cl (OP)

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2017, 10:40:03 PM »
Thanks Dad....
You're welcome, son.  Any time you have questions, don't hesitate to ask--you know I always have time for you.....................
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2017, 10:53:33 PM »
well Drew if you are one of those people that doesnt understand that freedom of religion does not mean you get to choose any religion as long as its Christian. If you dont know it means that you can also choose to be a Muslim or a Satanist, maybe this is a bridge too far for you.

There are times when people refuse to join the army are being patriotic (unjustified war like Vietnam). There are also times when not standing up to salute the flag is also being patriotic (it is a vote of no confidence in the current governments actions. If you think that its a disrespect to the country to not stand for the Star Spangled Banner you have been indoctrinated with some belief system; probably of religious origin; which not every one has been indoctrinated with).

If you want to try to say someone who doesnt salute the flag is not patriotic be warned that you are on the path that led to the Nazi take-over of Germany.

not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.

Online Shiranu

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2017, 11:34:21 PM »
Wondering where the, "Huuuurrrr! Special snowflakes!" Brigade has been through this whole controversy... oddly silent about a bunch of people losing their shit because someone disagreed with them...
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline Cavebear

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2017, 01:24:38 AM »
I'm surprised this topic didn't come up earlier. I'm sure I'm wrong because things are never what they seem but I thought he was attacking players who in his view shared by many disrespect the country and the flag. Its looks to me like some of the owners and players are starting to see this point of view. I noticed just about every news media reported Trumps words as divisive and I agree they were. A modicum of perspective to note many view the actions of the players to be divisive eh?

No doubt I'm wrong but steer me in the right direction...

Trump doesn't care a tinker's dam about NFL players kneeling to support "Black Lives Matter". 

He only cares are driving his mid-country supporters to a frenzy of artificial national honor, unreal patriotism, and to hatred toward other nations.  Minor things like NFL players are just fodder for his distraction from more serious events like enriching himself and his like through tax changes to come...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2017, 09:44:56 AM »

As the Washington Post put it:

In 1986, Trump convinced his fellow USFL owners to launch what amounted to a hostile takeover attempt: They moved the league’s schedule to the fall to compete directly with the NFL, then sued the NFL, alleging antitrust violations. Trump predicted to his fellow USFL owners that the lawsuit would result in a massive judgment — hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars in damages from the NFL — that would force the NFL to offer to merge the leagues.

The owners voted 12-2 to pursue this avenue.


The jury ruled that the NFL had violated antitrust law but concluded that the USFL’s financial struggles were of its own making and awarded only $1 in damages. In antitrust cases, damages are tripled, so Trump’s legal assault on the NFL won a grand total of $3.
The USFL folded.

So there was an antitrust issue??  The foundation of the legal case was TRUE. 

Quote from: article
She said that three of the six jurors had favored the NFL and that three others wanted to award damages as high as $300 million to the USFL. But they were so boggled by the task at hand, Sanchez said, that they decided on the $1 amount, believing that Judge Peter K. Leisure would understand that as a signal for him to decide the damage award. "I felt we had to put our faith in the court," she said.

An article on the case from 1986, rather than wapo re-write:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/sports/sp-18643_1_jury-finds-nfl-guilty

But I do not believe Trumps statements on the players kneeling during the anthem has anything to do with the above.   I think were Trump an NFL owner he would require his players to stand during the anthem.  I think Trump genuinely finds this taking a knee during the anthem disrespectful. 

More on NFL policy:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/09/25/what-nfl-rule-book-actually-says-national-anthem/699886001/

While not a fan of Kapernick in general, I have struggled with the question of Does he have a free speech right?  He is an employee, not a paying ticket holder.  He had signed the contract which in 2016, when he started his 'protest', was obligated by policy to follow protocol at the anthem which he did not do.  As an employee, I am required to follow policies at my workplace and repeated violations of policy can result in termination.  Many of us are required by 'policy' to avoid topics such as politics to ensure a peaceful, cooperative work environment.

Typically a QB is considered the leader of the team.  In real life, I dont want to hear my supervisor/manager/lead person spewing out his/her politics when I am on the job.  I dont want to hear the cashier at walmart spewing out their discontent with the police in a different city/state/etc when I am paying for my stuff, so I cannot disagree with the NFL policy on what players are expected to do on the field wearing the companies uniforms.  Thats the way it is for the majority of working slobs in the USA; working people who are also the paying ticket holders at these various stadiums that they helped fund, willingly or not.



Online aitm

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2017, 10:23:09 AM »
This is racism cloaked under the bravado of patriotism. If it was a bunch of white guys protesting blacks getting food-stamps why the stadiums would spend weeks cleaning up the split beer from all the bending over.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Cavebear

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2017, 10:27:03 AM »
The owners voted 12-2 to pursue this avenue.

So there was an antitrust issue??  The foundation of the legal case was TRUE. 

An article on the case from 1986, rather than wapo re-write:

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-07-30/sports/sp-18643_1_jury-finds-nfl-guilty

But I do not believe Trumps statements on the players kneeling during the anthem has anything to do with the above.   I think were Trump an NFL owner he would require his players to stand during the anthem.  I think Trump genuinely finds this taking a knee during the anthem disrespectful. 

More on NFL policy:

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/09/25/what-nfl-rule-book-actually-says-national-anthem/699886001/

While not a fan of Kapernick in general, I have struggled with the question of Does he have a free speech right?  He is an employee, not a paying ticket holder.  He had signed the contract which in 2016, when he started his 'protest', was obligated by policy to follow protocol at the anthem which he did not do.  As an employee, I am required to follow policies at my workplace and repeated violations of policy can result in termination.  Many of us are required by 'policy' to avoid topics such as politics to ensure a peaceful, cooperative work environment.

Typically a QB is considered the leader of the team.  In real life, I dont want to hear my supervisor/manager/lead person spewing out his/her politics when I am on the job.  I dont want to hear the cashier at walmart spewing out their discontent with the police in a different city/state/etc when I am paying for my stuff, so I cannot disagree with the NFL policy on what players are expected to do on the field wearing the companies uniforms.  Thats the way it is for the majority of working slobs in the USA; working people who are also the paying ticket holders at these various stadiums that they helped fund, willingly or not.

As fas as NFL players go using games to make political stements, I'm not on their side.  If you pay money to watch entertainers perform (and athletes are entertainers), that is not a free speech forum.

You can stand in the public square and state your views, you can write a letter to the newspaper, you can write a book, you can go on a talk show .  That's free speech. 

But using a paid event is wrong.  You shouldn't abuse a captive audience.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Cavebear

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2017, 10:30:13 AM »
This is racism cloaked under the bravado of patriotism. If it was a bunch of white guys protesting blacks getting food-stamps why the stadiums would spend weeks cleaning up the split beer from all the bending over.

Are we agreeing or disagreeing?  I can't really tell.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online aitm

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 10:42:54 AM »
I personally don't have a problem with it. At all. If it was ignored, the whole thing would be....ignored. But the media, blew it up and all of a sudden white people who make on average 60,000 a year are paying 100+ for a ticket get pissed that black men making millions should be protesting about anything.

And it is certainly not about the flag, that just the excuse. We have had white presidents wearing the flag inside their coat, a clear violation of the flag code, Kid Rock cut a hole in one and pranced about as it was a poncho, Nuget wore one, all against the flag code, but no whitey said a thing about that. How can kneeling be an insult anyway? How come nobody gives a shit about the camerman wandering around? Who gave them exempt status? Or the reporters? Or the people selling beer and crap? Or the stadium security walking around? Nope, just some uppity n*&^$Ws pissing off da white folk and all of a sudden, this turns into false patriot call to action.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline Baruch

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2017, 10:48:19 AM »
Cave bear - "But using a paid event is wrong.  You shouldn't abuse a captive audience."  You are correct for once ;-)  Abusing a captive audience is what all governments do to their citizens ;-(

Aitm - I am not religious about my flag, but Ted Nugent should be burned in effigy, all these POS should be burned in effigy.  And of course the Media play this up ... we are in the second McCarthyite period of insanity, are we not?  And yes, all Democrats are pedohiles, I read it on the Internet somewhere ;-(
« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 10:57:20 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: NFL & Trump
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2017, 10:53:59 AM »
well Drew if you are one of those people that doesnt understand that freedom of religion does not mean you get to choose any religion as long as its Christian. If you dont know it means that you can also choose to be a Muslim or a Satanist, maybe this is a bridge too far for you.

There are times when people refuse to join the army are being patriotic (unjustified war like Vietnam). There are also times when not standing up to salute the flag is also being patriotic (it is a vote of no confidence in the current governments actions. If you think that its a disrespect to the country to not stand for the Star Spangled Banner you have been indoctrinated with some belief system; probably of religious origin; which not every one has been indoctrinated with).

If you want to try to say someone who doesnt salute the flag is not patriotic be warned that you are on the path that led to the Nazi take-over of Germany.

But I like Nazis.  They were only bad, because they were Gentile, not Jewish.  Kosher Nazis would be perfect in all they do.  Just ask Likud in Israel.
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