US Military to Syria

[Shiranu]

The use of gas is a violation of Protocol III, and Syria isn't a signatory nation.  We can't hold them liable for violating a treaty they're not a party to, we can just come down on them for doing something we find abhorrent.  But, not being bound by Protocol III, Syria can't be violating it.

That's a nice little shift of blame then.

"We find this absolutely incompatible with human rights, but you don't agree it is a human rights violation, so we have no legal justification for upholding human rights."

But then if we do something about human rights violations, we are the bad guys? And what then is the point of having laws if it becomes perfectly acceptable if you just refuse to acknowledge it?

Makes sense. Personally, if being the bad guy means putting human life before the law, then I will be the baddest of them all.

[pr126]

This is what awaits the Syrian Christians if the "rebels" are helped by the US administration.

Syria militants massacre Christian village population

The massacre, carried out by Free Syrian Army militants reportedly targeted men, women and children in the Christian village of al-Duwayr/Douar close to the city of Homs and the border with Lebanon. The incident received little media attention, having occurred at the same time as thousands of Syrian troops converged on the insurgent-occupied town of al-Qusayr.

According to sources, around 350 heavily armed militants entered the village, broke into homes and assembled residents in the main square of the village where they were executed. The final death toll is not known but photos show severe damage to property in the village.

Syrian army sources said that they reached the village after the massacre, resulting in clashes with militants. Sources also reported that Turkish and Chechen extremists were among the perpetrators. Chechen militants are known to have kidnapped two Christian bishops in Aleppo earlier this year. The following images show al-Duwayr/Douar village after the massacre:

Sectarianism and minorities in the Syrian civil war

An awful lot of people will be massacred if Assad is toppled.

[kilodelta]

Yeah... supporting an Islamic insurgency is not a good idea. The small scale of the use of sarin is not a threat to us. I wouldn't mind finding thier chemical agent production facilities and bombing them. Beyond that, both sides of this Syrian conflict are losers.

[Shiranu]

Yeah... supporting an Islamic insurgency is not a good idea. The small scale of the use of sarin is not a threat to us. I wouldn't mind finding thier chemical agent production facilities and bombing them. Beyond that, both sides of this Syrian conflict are losers.

I would support this more than anything; finding the warehouses and production facilities and destroying them.

That said, the U.S. does have one interest in seeing Assad fall... Hezbollah are aiding his cause, and that is an organization I fear having weapons in its hands more than the rebels. I think the hard-line Islamic rebels would focus most of their attention inward, where Hezbollah focuses their attention outwards.

[kilodelta]

Then finally there are nerve agents like Sarin gas... this shit will stick to your clothing and continue to release from it for over 30 minutes after exposure, meaning you can take the gas home and your entire family can suffocate to death as your nervous system fails! Yay, fun for the whole family!

Even thickened sarin would kill the person who got it on their clothes before they get a chance to carry a harmful level of off-gassing back home. Depending on the delivery method, most of the sarin should evaporate and pose an inhalation hazard. It is also a contact hazard in liquid form, but used most effectively in the form of a gas. It kind of makes sense to use sarin rather than VX. There is a less of a chance of killing people outside the target and downwind area. VX could kill people for days after the attack.

[Shiranu]

Then finally there are nerve agents like Sarin gas... this shit will stick to your clothing and continue to release from it for over 30 minutes after exposure, meaning you can take the gas home and your entire family can suffocate to death as your nervous system fails! Yay, fun for the whole family!

Even thickened sarin would kill the person who got it on their clothes before they get a chance to carry a harmful level of off-gassing back home. Depending on the delivery method, most of the sarin should evaporate and pose an inhalation hazard. It is also a contact hazard in liquid form, but used most effectively in the form of a gas. It kind of makes sense to use sarin rather than VX. There is a less of a chance of killing people outside the target and downwind area. VX could kill people for days after the attack.

Hmm, maybe I was looking at the wrong gas, but I woulda swore it said it was sarin that sticks into clothing for up to 30 minutes.

(Though I suppose I could stick into clothing and the wearer not be going any where, being dead and all...)

[SilentFutility]

Yeah... supporting an Islamic insurgency is not a good idea. The small scale of the use of sarin is not a threat to us. I wouldn't mind finding thier chemical agent production facilities and bombing them. Beyond that, both sides of this Syrian conflict are losers.

I would support this more than anything; finding the warehouses and production facilities and destroying them.

That said, the U.S. does have one interest in seeing Assad fall... Hezbollah are aiding his cause, and that is an organization I fear having weapons in its hands more than the rebels. I think the hard-line Islamic rebels would focus most of their attention inward, where Hezbollah focuses their attention outwards.

Putting advanced weaponry into the region will mean it will inevitably end up in the hands of extremists. If it doesn't turn the tide of the war, and the regime reasserts control, those weapons will fall into the hands of the regime, and more worryingly hezbollah and other related groups. if the rebels win, then those weapons will remain with them or be sold on to people in the region who still have cause to fight, such as other extremist groups.

If these weapons take the form of anti-aircraft weaponry, then in a few years there'll be extremists in the region with the means of effectively shooting down commercial airliners, as well as the ability to fire upon military targets.

If the rebels are just given light arms, then it won't be enough to turn the tide of the war. If they're given anything more effective in a modern war then this weaponry will remain and destabilise the region and will fall into the hands of people who will still want to use it after the war is over.

[pr126]

Space age weapons and stone age minds are a dangerous mix.

[AllPurposeAtheist]

Find an easy call and I would think someone makes it, but as it sits there seems to be no good guys here. Doing utterly nothing hasn't turned out well and escalation certainly isn't to appealing, but it'll escalate either way.
Russia, Iran, Hezballa and of course Assad on one side, Islamic extremists on the other. It feels s bit like to really shitty kids fighting and you have to decide which one to give the slingshot to and which one gets the BB gun..

[AllPurposeAtheist]

What war was ever fought that wasn't for power and/or money or both? Someone always stands to become very wealthy and anymore the people standing to get the wealth already have more money than they can ever possibly spend so it leaves power and dictatorship..  Certainly it's not a moral issue when you're willing to flip a switch to kill tens of thousands. There are no morals in the 'calculous'..

[Fidel_Castronaut]

One of the problems I see with a direct intervention on the side of the rebels is that Syria will probably end up being another Islamic theocracy. Egypt should teach us all something.

Honestly, we (US/UK/France et al.) should just leave the fuck alone.

Meddling in the Middle East is just as long sorry road of people on all sides dying and religious conservatives carrying on the good work after 'the war' is over.

Nobody wins in this scenario, and Syria is arguably one of the most militarized in the region (thanks to their Russian and Iranian friends).

[Minimalist]

As noted, Syria did not sign the treaty....the US has plenty of treaties that it did not sign.  The purpose of not signing them is that you are not bound by its conditions.

For a nation which dropped tons of Agent Orange on Vietnam we have suddenly gotten all high and mighty about "chemical weapons."

Sorry.  Not buying it.  This is a civil war and the "rebels" are every bit as much of a bunch of scumbags as the government.  Maybe worse.

[WitchSabrina]

One of the problems I see with a direct intervention on the side of the rebels is that Syria will probably end up being another Islamic theocracy. Egypt should teach us all something.

Honestly, we (US/UK/France et al.) should just leave the fuck alone.

Meddling in the Middle East is just as long sorry road of people on all sides dying and religious conservatives carrying on the good work after 'the war' is over.

Nobody wins in this scenario, and Syria is arguably one of the most militarized in the region (thanks to their Russian and Iranian friends).

QFT
 =D>

[Colanth]

There is NOT ONE SENSIBLE thing in this scenario. The only thing will happen is radicalising people in the region, US and the others will get what they want

Temporarily.  In the long run we'll say "how could THAT have happened?"

This just happened a decade ago. Haven't you learned anything at all?

That's what I was going to say, but you said it first.

[Shiranu]

This just happened a decade ago. Haven't you learned anything at all? How do you actually support all this now? What do you think this is? A computer game? This is fucking madness. It makes me sick.

Er... we bombed specific targets without any feet on the ground just a decade ago? Where did this happen?

Which never happens,first wars do not happen like that, secondly because even IF there are chemical weapons, why any power would get in there without any real benefit or profit just to destroy them?

It worked for the Israeli jets that destroyed arms headed to Lebanon a few weeks ago. Granted, they are a bit more experienced than us...