Author Topic: Just got banned from Christian Forums  (Read 1369 times)

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2017, 03:57:36 AM »
I find this true all over the Internet.  PC is everywhere, just not one kind, many kinds.  Glass houses all the way down, and everyone is stoned ;-)

And welcome.

I am a heretic, so both theists and atheists stone me ... but I prefer my own liquor cabinet thank you very much!

Sorry, I didn't see your post until Cavebear posted a reply. Thanks for the welcome.

What kind of a heretic are you? 'Heretic' is an outdated word that is no longer used by the church. Today, most priests are heretics. Haha. But what is a freethinking theist?

Online Cavebear

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2017, 04:00:44 AM »
Sorry, I didn't see your post until Cavebear posted a reply. Thanks for the welcome.

What kind of a heretic are you? 'Heretic' is an outdated word that is no longer used by the church. Today, most priests are heretics. Haha. But what is a freethinking theist?

"the church"?  Is there just one now?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2017, 04:11:04 AM »
"the church"?  Is there just one now?

Of course you are right. I tend to think of just my church. The Established Church. And it's a good church. We are the world's most liberal. We have priests who don't even believe in God's existence. Richard Dawkins says it's the most benign church. Actually, Dawkins is still a member of the same church as me. Technically, Dawkins and I are fellow communicants of the same church. Haha. Accept that he is now a New Atheist and I'm still an altar boy who wears a surplice and carries the candle and sometimes the thurible. But as far as my church goes, he and I are of the same standing. LOL. He still says grace in New College as a Fellow.

Online Cavebear

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2017, 04:14:29 AM »
Of course you are right. I tend to think of just my church. The Established Church. And it's a good church. We are the world's most liberal. We have priests who don't even believe in God's existence. Richard Dawkins says it's the most benign church. Actually, Dawkins is still a member of the same church as me. Technically, Dawkins and I are fellow communicants of the same church. Haha. Accept that he is now a New Atheist and I'm still an altar boy who wears a surplice and carries the candle and sometimes the thurible. But as far as my church goes, he and I are of the same standing. LOL. He still says grace in New College as a Fellow.

You might want to specify this "church". 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2017, 04:16:31 AM »
You might want to specify this "church".

Lord have mercy! You don't know which church Dawkins was baptised and confirmed in? I thought you'd have Dawkins' icon on your desk and in your bedroom.

It's the CofE.

Online Cavebear

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2017, 04:24:59 AM »
Lord have mercy! You don't know which church Dawkins was baptised and confirmed in? I thought you'd have Dawkins' icon on your desk and in your bedroom.

It's the CofE.

As if I would care.  Did he stay in it?  Did he care about it?  Did he announce its beliefs? 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2017, 04:42:11 AM »
As if I would care.  Did he stay in it?  Did he care about it?  Did he announce its beliefs?

The only thing religious he does now is to say grace at New College where he's a Fellow. I remember there was a bit of unhappiness on his website once when this was mentioned. American atheists tend to be very unhappy about this kind of thing. But Dawkins understands the significance of culture.

Online Cavebear

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2017, 05:02:18 AM »
The only thing religious he does now is to say grace at New College where he's a Fellow. I remember there was a bit of unhappiness on his website once when this was mentioned. American atheists tend to be very unhappy about this kind of thing. But Dawkins understands the significance of culture.

And I bet he would avoid the Grace thing if he could.  So you are saying it is the ritual that matters most to you?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2017, 06:46:46 AM »
And I bet he would avoid the Grace thing if he could.  So you are saying it is the ritual that matters most to you?

As I explained to the dotards in Christian Forums, I'm a Christian because I was brought up one. Even rocketman who we know is the stupidest man on earth should be able to see that. But people in CF were not happy when I said that. They wanted me to say 'Oh no. I'm a Christian not because of my family. Even if I had been born in the family of Osama bin Laden, I'd be a Christian' or some such rubbish that only dotards can believe in. So I am a Christian because of my family. I'd be a blooming suicide bomber if I were born in a family of extremist Muslims.

My religion is therefore my culture. But if I were born a Muslim, I'd be an atheist today. Islam is too harmful to humanity for me to have the conscience to be even a cultural Muslim. But I'm Church of England which is purely cultural and totally innocuous. If I were born in the Westboro Baptist Church, I'd also be an atheist today.

You ask if it's the ritual that matters to me. It's the culture / religion that I am identified with and show respect for. And it's a good religion; it's peaceful and non-terrorist. OK, maybe if I had been born in the Middle Ages in the RC church with its spanish inquisition, i'd be an atheist. But that's all ancient history and I'm not in any other church but the CofE. My church doesn't have priests who molest altar boys and choir boys. Our priests are happily married with kids of their own. Of course there may be paedophiles like in any institution but you don't find an unhealthy concentration of paedophiles like the RC model of enforced celibacy naturally attracts.

Online Cavebear

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2017, 07:02:41 AM »
As I explained to the dotards in Christian Forums, I'm a Christian because I was brought up one. Even rocketman who we know is the stupidest man on earth should be able to see that. But people in CF were not happy when I said that. They wanted me to say 'Oh no. I'm a Christian not because of my family. Even if I had been born in the family of Osama bin Laden, I'd be a Christian' or some such rubbish that only dotards can believe in. So I am a Christian because of my family. I'd be a blooming suicide bomber if I were born in a family of extremist Muslims.

My religion is therefore my culture. But if I were born a Muslim, I'd be an atheist today. Islam is too harmful to humanity for me to have the conscience to be even a cultural Muslim. But I'm Church of England which is purely cultural and totally innocuous. If I were born in the Westboro Baptist Church, I'd also be an atheist today.

You ask if it's the ritual that matters to me. It's the culture / religion that I am identified with and show respect for. And it's a good religion; it's peaceful and non-terrorist. OK, maybe if I had been born in the Middle Ages in the RC church with its spanish inquisition, i'd be an atheist. But that's all ancient history and I'm not in any other church but the CofE. My church doesn't have priests who molest altar boys and choir boys. Our priests are happily married with kids of their own. Of course there may be paedophiles like in any institution but you don't find an unhealthy concentration of paedophiles like the RC model of enforced celibacy naturally attracts.

OK, so you are  christian because you were brought up one...  Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, you would be a moslem.  Had you been born into a baptist family in Westboro Baptist Church, you would be a baptist.  And you are of Church Of England because that is where you were raised.

Everything you says suggests you would be whatever your culture was.  Do you BELIEVE what your church teaches?  Could you change if you moved to say, the US?  I'm trying to understand your statement that it is just cultural and not really a belief.

Do you believe or not?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2017, 07:38:25 AM »
OK, so you are  christian because you were brought up one...  Had you been born in Saudi Arabia, you would be a moslem.  Had you been born into a baptist family in Westboro Baptist Church, you would be a baptist.  And you are of Church Of England because that is where you were raised.

Everything you says suggests you would be whatever your culture was.  Do you BELIEVE what your church teaches?  Could you change if you moved to say, the US?  I'm trying to understand your statement that it is just cultural and not really a belief.

Do you believe or not?

I am now in a different country where Christians are a minority. I live here because my dad moves around a bit. He's in the foreign service. The majority here worship some Buddhist deity but I don't change just because I live here. I'm still English and my religion and culture remain unchanged. It's not where I live.

But like I've said, if I had been born a Muslim, I'd be an atheist today. That's because I cannot reconcile a religion like Islam with human good. I would throw away a culture that is inherently bad. The same thing if I were born an RC during the time of the dark ages when the Spanish Inquisition was torturing and killing people.  I would be an atheist because my conscience wouldn't allow me to be in a culture that is murderous.

That depends on what you mean by 'belief'. Does God cognitively exist to me? Probably not. As I told people in CF, it's more likely for pixies to exist than for the Christian God because pixies don't purport to intervene in human affairs.

Offline Baruch

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2017, 07:52:39 AM »
What is a freethinking theist?

A heretic.  And yes, G-d like anything else, is experienced.  But so is the Spirit of Christmas ... don't try to overthink it.  Rationalism, reductionism, materialism are all techniques, choices ... that people can choose to make ... like an artist choosing blue instead of red.  Though like theater, not painting.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2017, 07:55:26 AM »
Sorry, I didn't see your post until Cavebear posted a reply. Thanks for the welcome.

What kind of a heretic are you? 'Heretic' is an outdated word that is no longer used by the church. Today, most priests are heretics. Haha. But what is a freethinking theist?

Answered against a different reply.  As an old man, I am comfortable with being outdated.  But as a classic, I never age ;-)  I am Jewish, not Christian, but very well read on all religions, and many other topics.  We can get into details after you start posting in the sub-sections.  I can either laugh or cry.  I prefer to laugh, and this irritates some people.
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2017, 07:58:16 AM »
Of course you are right. I tend to think of just my church. The Established Church. And it's a good church. We are the world's most liberal. We have priests who don't even believe in God's existence. Richard Dawkins says it's the most benign church. Actually, Dawkins is still a member of the same church as me. Technically, Dawkins and I are fellow communicants of the same church. Haha. Accept that he is now a New Atheist and I'm still an altar boy who wears a surplice and carries the candle and sometimes the thurible. But as far as my church goes, he and I are of the same standing. LOL. He still says grace in New College as a Fellow.

So you are English?  We have some of those here too.  Some rabbis don't believe in God's existence.  Mine does, but we don't have the same definition for some of the words ... that makes me a heretic.  But we have some of the same experiences, because we worship together  ;-)  I am the Hebrew teacher sometimes.
שלום

Offline St Truth (OP)

Re: Just got banned from Christian Forums
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2017, 08:02:08 AM »
A heretic.  And yes, G-d like anything else, is experienced.  But so is the Spirit of Christmas ... don't try to overthink it.  Rationalism, reductionism, materialism are all techniques, choices ... that people can choose to make ... like an artist choosing blue instead of red.  Though like theater, not painting.

A heretic is just a person who does not believe in the orthodox position. It doesn't mean anything. Both the orthodox and the heretic may both be wrong. Why do you write G-d for God? Do you treat God as a dirty word? Just like some people will write F--- when they mean to use that socially unacceptable word.

Your answer is extremely hazy. When someone says rationalism is just one of the many methods to arrive at something, I have to disagree unless I misunderstand what you mean by rationalism. Reality = truth = objective. Either something is true or it is not. Seeing truth as multi-faceted is wrong. A lot of people in CF like to think of truth as flexible. As I told them, that is obviously an excuse for holding on to their positions regardless of its falsehood. Reality is not a flexible thing. Either God exists or he does not. Either the fairy exists or it does not. It's false to say the fairy exists if you look at truth from one perspective and it does not exist if you look at it from another perspective. If that were the case, one perspective has got to be true and the others false. From my short experience in CF, I know that those who try to make the truth appear flexible usually are just unable to accept that their cherished position is false. Truth is never flexible.