Author Topic: Trumps UN Speech  (Read 1914 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2017, 01:11:50 PM »
I liked John Bolton.  He could tell all the damn foreigners to get the hell out of NYC, and set up shop in Geneva, where pedophilia is more normal ;-(
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2017, 01:27:53 PM »
I liked John Bolton.  He could tell all the damn foreigners to get the hell out of NYC, and set up shop in Geneva, where pedophilia is more normal ;-(

The UN is in the US for OUR political suasion, not theirs... 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2017, 02:02:43 PM »
Well I'm not a big Tillerson fan, but I saw his humiliation and who can't feel for THAT?  Obviously, it was either not the speech Tillerson expected (and was therefore out of the inner circle loop), or it was what he expected and was utterly distraught thinking of how he could face he peers in other governments after the debacle. 

And how is that a bad thing?  While I am not a fan of Tillerson, reading over his wiki page (as someone who isn't happy with the way things have been going for a very long time), I can't help but feel if Tillerson doesn't like it, its probably good for me.

That's my analysis...  Analyzing Trump speeches is smoking grass and drinking beer at the same time.  For the less experienced, that's like taking an upper and a downer at the same time...
Not to be too critical but your analysis of listeners body language leaves something to be desired in the realm of substance regarding the actual speech.


Offline Cavebear

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2017, 02:19:48 PM »
And how is that a bad thing?  While I am not a fan of Tillerson, reading over his wiki page (as someone who isn't happy with the way things have been going for a very long time), I can't help but feel if Tillerson doesn't like it, its probably good for me.
Not to be too critical but your analysis of listeners body language leaves something to be desired in the realm of substance regarding the actual speech.

Fair enough.  I base it on my 30 years experience of watching co-workers and immediate supervisors holding their heads and cringing listening to a higher-up butcher the facts we gave him while trying to figure out how to diplomatically tell the listeners later (and privately) that what they heard weren't really the facts.  Just an idiot's misunderstanding of them.

And I learned to recognize my counterparts in other offices doing the same when THEIR bosses spoke at meetings.

I'll give you a perfect example.  I created and managed a videoconferencing network in the mid 90s.  Only to watch (On a video conference, ironically where I could not actually scream and be heard), when the CFO proved he could not divide by 10.  He declared the videoconferencing network cost $9,000/hour when it cost $900.  Less than the cost of sending 1 person across country for a 1 hour meeting.

My supervisor had to literally and physically hold me back from breaking into the meeting to correct the error.  And because of THAT ONE IDIOT, a whole videoconferncing network crashed to a STOP.

So, yes, I do have some slight experience in interpreting the body language  of underlings forced to listen to someone "more talented" (gag, gag) butcher a presentation.

OK?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2017, 03:01:56 PM »
Fair enough.  I base it on my 30 years experience of watching co-workers and immediate supervisors holding their heads and cringing listening to a higher-up butcher the facts we gave him while trying to figure out how to diplomatically tell the listeners later (and privately) that what they heard weren't really the facts.  Just an idiot's misunderstanding of them.

Fine.  Then display the facts of Trumps speech that you dispute.  Because in my 30 years of work experience, the most common reason for co-workers cringing was because something proposed increased their individual workload.  Sometimes they had a legitimate complaint, sometimes they didnt.

So, in reflection and based on Tillersons work experience, Trumps speech would make him cringe if he planned on getting his corporate buddies great deals.  And I quote:

Quote
For too long, the American people were told that mammoth multinational trade deals, unaccountable international tribunals, and powerful global bureaucracies were the best way to promote their success. But as those promises flowed, millions of jobs vanished and thousands of factories disappeared. Others gamed the system and broke the rules. And our great middle class, once the bedrock of American prosperity, was forgotten and left behind, but they are forgotten no more and they will never be forgotten again.

Yeah, I can see Tillerson cringing at this.  But not for the reasons you imply.

I'll give you a perfect example.  I created and managed a videoconferencing network in the mid 90s.  Only to watch (On a video conference, ironically where I could not actually scream and be heard), when the CFO proved he could not divide by 10.  He declared the videoconferencing network cost $9,000/hour when it cost $900.  Less than the cost of sending 1 person across country for a 1 hour meeting.


 Sorry but I am not impressed with your analogy.  A simple verbal error is not what caused the video con to be scuttled.  My own dept went through a video vs teleconference debate in the early 2000s.  The facts were vid was not up to the job/unreliable and costs were prohibitive. 

But that is apples/oranges isnt it?  While you are definitely free to use whatever parameters to decide good/bad etc, personally I do not put much stock in 'audience body language' as a consideration regading whether the actual words and/or ideas being presented are good/bad for me. 


Offline Cavebear

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2017, 03:32:39 PM »
Fine.  Then display the facts of Trumps speech that you dispute.  Because in my 30 years of work experience, the most common reason for co-workers cringing was because something proposed increased their individual workload.  Sometimes they had a legitimate complaint, sometimes they didnt.

So, in reflection and based on Tillersons work experience, Trumps speech would make him cringe if he planned on getting his corporate buddies great deals.  And I quote:

Yeah, I can see Tillerson cringing at this.  But not for the reasons you imply.

 Sorry but I am not impressed with your analogy.  A simple verbal error is not what caused the video con to be scuttled.  My own dept went through a video vs teleconference debate in the early 2000s.  The facts were vid was not up to the job/unreliable and costs were prohibitive. 

But that is apples/oranges isnt it?  While you are definitely free to use whatever parameters to decide good/bad etc, personally I do not put much stock in 'audience body language' as a consideration regading whether the actual words and/or ideas being presented are good/bad for me.

First, I cringed because the manager's disaster of a presentation caused continued excess and unnecessary travel expense.  Personally, it meant LESS work for me.  So you are wrong about THAT right off the bat.

Second, you are comparing 1990s technology to 2000s tech.  Of course we would have moved on to the networks by then (and did in spite of our idiot CFO).  But that was 10 years ahead.  Pay attention to time...

Third, It wasn't a mere "verbal error" that stopped the videoconferencing network.  It was a basic math blunder BY THE CFO (of all people).  Everyone in the room knew it and no one had the nerve to correct him.  I would have (and did later). 

Fourth, it was not "audience body language" I was mostly referring to.  Diplomats are trained not to respond (though lack of applause can signify meaning among them).  I mentioned Trump's Secretary of State, cringing at what he heard (and thought off camera).  The speech was obviously not what he expected or hoped for.

Professional political observers immediately caught the problem and commented on it. 

I hope this helps you understand the situations, then and now.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2017, 03:51:15 PM »
I liked John Bolton.  He could tell all the damn foreigners to get the hell out of NYC, and set up shop in Geneva, where pedophilia is more normal ;-(
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Offline Cavebear

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2017, 03:54:07 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Yeah, Bolton could really fling that S***.  So helpful to international relations...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2017, 07:11:39 PM »
Yeah, Bolton could really fling that S***.  So helpful to international relations...

No need to be diplomatic, when you are sticking a knife in someone's torso ;-)  I think the recipient gets the point.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 07:18:44 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2017, 07:14:27 PM »
Well I'm not a big Tillerson fan, but I saw his humiliation and who can't feel for THAT?  Obviously, it was either not the speech Tillerson expected (and was therefore out of the inner circle loop), or it was what he expected and was utterly distraught thinking of how he could face he peers in other governments after the debacle. 

I could go either way on that, not knowing what Tillerson knew beforehand.

That's my analysis...  Analyzing Trump speeches is smoking grass and drinking beer at the same time.  For the less experienced, that's like taking an upper and a downer at the same time...

Tillerson is just another hideous syncophant or Deep State keeper.  He can say and do what he is told to do, or get thrown on the wood pile with the other failed Charlie McCarthy dolls.  A President will definitely have his hand up a cabinet minister's ass, and not just an intern's ....
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Offline Baruch

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2017, 07:18:08 PM »
First, I cringed because the manager's disaster of a presentation caused continued excess and unnecessary travel expense.  Personally, it meant LESS work for me.  So you are wrong about THAT right off the bat.

Second, you are comparing 1990s technology to 2000s tech.  Of course we would have moved on to the networks by then (and did in spite of our idiot CFO).  But that was 10 years ahead.  Pay attention to time...

Third, It wasn't a mere "verbal error" that stopped the videoconferencing network.  It was a basic math blunder BY THE CFO (of all people).  Everyone in the room knew it and no one had the nerve to correct him.  I would have (and did later). 

Fourth, it was not "audience body language" I was mostly referring to.  Diplomats are trained not to respond (though lack of applause can signify meaning among them).  I mentioned Trump's Secretary of State, cringing at what he heard (and thought off camera).  The speech was obviously not what he expected or hoped for.

Professional political observers immediately caught the problem and commented on it. 

I hope this helps you understand the situations, then and now.

The recent security expert in charge at Equifax was a music major.  These people are chosen on their golfing ability.  Do you not read the Dilbert scriptures?
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Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2017, 11:01:42 AM »
First, I cringed because the manager's disaster of a presentation caused continued excess and unnecessary travel expense.  Personally, it meant LESS work for me. So you are wrong about THAT right off the bat.

You make my point. 

Quote from: chill98
Because in my 30 years of work experience, the most common reason for co-workers cringing was because something proposed increased their individual workload.  Sometimes they had a legitimate complaint, sometimes they didnt.

Second,  SNIP

The point being made was YOUR work experience may be valid, but my DIFFERENT and equally valid work experience is no reflection on the UN speech.

Fourth, it was not "audience body language" I was mostly referring to.  Diplomats are trained not to respond (though lack of applause can signify meaning among them).  I mentioned Trump's Secretary of State, cringing at what he heard (and thought off camera).  The speech was obviously not what he expected or hoped for.

Tillerson was an audience member for Trumps speech.  GET IT? 

Still waiting for an actual substance of the speech that bugged you, but I would guess none will appear because you havent actually read the transcript of the CONTENT, instead looking to validate your own bias via flimsy 'body language'.... 

Just curious, Do Peacocks scare you? 

Because while its good to be hesitant around a barking/growling dog, the reality is Most will not bite you.  A body language example that needs to be taken in context before declaring it a dangerous dog.  Relying on your 'Animal instinct' to interpret a situation works sometimes.   Relying on it to make most decisions creates the need for 'safe spaces'.

If you would like, I can send you a box of crayons.

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #42 on: September 29, 2017, 06:04:58 PM »
So, in reflection and based on Tillersons work experience, Trumps speech would make him cringe if he planned on getting his corporate buddies great deals. 

Wait, do you actually think Trump and Tillerson are at odds on this particular point (getting their corporate buddies, aka themselves, great deals)?
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2017, 10:12:02 PM »
It's just kabuki theatre..You're witnessing more absurdities than ever and before Chump actually gets to play nuker in chief someone will pull the plug on him... Too much money at stake.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Trumps UN Speech
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2017, 01:38:42 AM »
Wait, do you actually think Trump and Tillerson are at odds on this particular point (getting their corporate buddies, aka themselves, great deals)?

The discussion was Tillersons body language and my point was things trump SAID would make Tillerson cringe.  It had nothing to do with whether they are at odds on this point.  However, heres some old clips of Trump and its not that much different from his words at the UN.  Trumps been singing this song for a long time.

Free trade
youtube.com/watch?v=sG1OLOjMEIo

1999 N.Korea
youtube.com/watch?v=1-1WE-ivtO4

More of the Oprah clip.
youtube.com/watch?v=GZpMJeynBeg