Author Topic: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA  (Read 583 times)

Offline Munch

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2017, 02:16:26 PM »
Illegal immigration isn't the same as book burning and teaching ridiculous religious concepts in schools. Every country has rules for immigration for a reason. They need those rules in place to maintain a degree of order.

Your posts are starting to get to ibn lengths too, might wanna avoid that association.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 02:19:45 PM by Munch »

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2017, 02:51:49 PM »
Quote
Illegal immigration isn't the same as book burning and teaching ridiculous religious concepts in schools.

You're right; it's worse. This is people's lives we are talking about. This is talking about telling a family, "Alright, fuck you! You see your children? Yeah, fuck them, we are taking them from the only home they have ever known and shipping them off to a foreign country for your crimes!".

I guess the examples were a bit redundant; if that doesn't trigger a response, then I don't know why appealing to the "rational" side would change anything. That is so inherently shitty any sane human being should have a negative response to that view point.

Quote
Every country has rules for immigration for a reason. They need those rules in place to maintain a degree of order.

Again, appealing to the law for the laws sake. The law is not infallible. We have a war on drugs for a reason, but that doesn't mean the war on drugs is a successful campaign. We had anti-LGBT laws for years for a reason, that doesn't mean anti-LGBT laws are acceptable. We had segregation for generations for a very specific, logical reason, but that doesn't make segregation acceptable.

Quote
Your posts are starting to get to ibn lengths too, might wanna avoid that association.

1/10, trying way too hard.
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline Munch

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2017, 04:49:05 PM »

Again, appealing to the law for the laws sake.
Quote
1/10, trying way too hard.

It's like a where's Wally of self defeating quotes.

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2017, 06:16:34 PM »
Snipped Links

Here is the quote I asked you to respond with links:

Quote from: Shiranu
The overwhelming majority of immigrants, and particularly DREAMers, are both hard-working, productive citizens as well as tax paying, law abiding people. When you look at the statistics for DACA recipients, they are near the top of any group in America in regards to education and productivity, and they did that in constant fear.

None of your links addressed anything you claimed and were all regarding convictions/prison populations.  However here is one example from below link which shows legal vs dreamer vs nonDreamer eligible.



In each comparison of immigrants (native population is irrelevant for this conversation), the Dreamers are more likely than any immigrant population in this survey to become incarcerated.

https://www.cato.org/publications/immigration-research-policy-brief/dreamer-incarceration-rate

Quote from: Shiranu
Illegal and legal immigrants aren't usually competing for jobs, though. One overwhelmingly joins the labour force, which we drastically need more people for, and the other joins more "educated" jobs, which we drastically need more people for.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/662073?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

Plenty of other articles on how immigrant populations negatively affect the African american job seekers.
Quote from: Shiranu
There are finite resources, but we are no where near that point.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-use-report/71517072/

Quote from: Shiranu
Right. It was selfish when they had to change their last name and stop speaking their native tongue at home because everyone was afraid of Germans and they wanted to be American more than they wanted to be German. It was selfish when their children went to Germany to fight their own countrymen, when they received a silver star for charging a Nazi gun nest strapped with grenades to save their squad, when they were fire bombing German cities and doing missions over Berlin. It was selfish when they served as officer in Korea and Vietnam to "stop the spread of Communism".  It was selfish when they ran their gas station and convenience shop and paid their taxes, did excellent work, and paid their taxes. It was selfish that they never taught their children how to speak German or Spanish, because they were American and Americans spoke English at home.
Nope, it was selfish for them to illegally immigrate to the usa.  Rules are for everyone else.   Sorry pal, but some of my closest friends in school were children of German immigrants (both parents) whos father had actually fought in the german army (not a nazi party member).  They immigrated legally.  Why couldnt your family?  Let me guess, they didnt even try to do it the legal way...   And that is the whole point of the argument.  Its not about being anti-immigration.  Its about applying the law equally in regards to immigration. 

Quote from: Shiranu
Give me a break, man. My family paid for the right to be here with their blood, sweat and tears and so to do the majority of immigrants who move here today. You're entire argument basically comes down to, "Follow the law because it's the law!", but would you sing the same song if the law was to burn all books the state disagrees with? To denounce science because politicians disagree with it? Would you still be singing the same tune about people who hid the books, who secretly taught science at school? Likely not, because that is both logically and emotionally stupid. Yet when it's about a group that doesn't effect you directly, suddenly that argument becomes more compelling.

Thereyagoagain....  cant get through any topic without resorting to maligning someone who disagrees with you. 

I am not stoopid you smarmy PoS.  Immigration to ANY country, whether it be USA, Canada, Australia, etc should be regarded as a privilege granted to the immigrant when they meet the criteria set forth in the law.  That is the topic, not your imaginations and deflections to unrelated topics as though it holds some kind of relevance to willful border jumping. 

Ship them all back to their country of origin and let them apply just like all those MILLIONS of people from all over the globe who valued the opportunity to become Citizens of the USA and wanted to everything RIGHT not expecting a Free Ride after hiding in the shadows.


Quote
America doesn't have an open door policy on immigration, our immigration laws are extremely strict compared to most countries, with only 4 countries being considered stricter than us (3 in Europe [Austria, Germany, Switzerland] and then Japan) And of those European ones, they are very open to immigrants coming from rough situations, far more so than America.
America doesnt have an open BORDER policy on immigration.  Almost anyone can apply for immigrant status.  Too bad the peoples we are discussing decided to skip that part and want all the rules changed to accommodate their selfish nature.  me Me MEEEE....
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 06:23:57 PM by chill98 »

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2017, 06:52:24 PM »
It's like a where's Wally of self defeating quotes.

You're right, pointing out the flaw in your argument is basically the same as intentionally trolling.

0.5/10.
Om Mani Padme Hum

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2017, 06:53:19 PM »
>Quotes Cato institute.

Lol. Okay.

You want to call people selfish, while ignoring the reality of what immigrants go through all for your sense of pride and belief that the law is the law is the law. "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

It is all water under the bridge. People who have half a heart will win at the end of the day, and your ideology will fall by the wayside... as has and had already begun before the last bastion of hold-out morons voted in Trump. Neither political parties' mainline supports your position, so have fun with that in 5-10 years when the current batch is recycled out and America slowly makes steps towards being a first-world country again.


Trump, Arpaio, Ken Paxton, Abott, et. al. is the height of your political influence. You're just a bitter little man with a sad little political viewpoint that, in a hundred years, will go in the history books like segregation, eugenics, anti-LGBT laws and slavery.  I hope you can find peace in that before you die, because I cant imagine the shame that must bring.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:35:06 PM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2017, 09:55:40 PM »
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."
You spew bible quotes in response to an article with actual numbers rather than 'feelings' showing Dreamers are more likely to be incarcerated than other immigrants??? 

Quote from: Shiranu
People who have half a heart will win at the end of the day, and your ideology will fall by the wayside... as has and had already begun before the last bastion of hold-out morons voted in Trump. Neither political parties' mainline supports your position, so have fun with that in 5-10 years when the current batch is recycled out and America slowly makes steps towards being a first-world country again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/01/30/how-immigration-reform-failed-over-and-over/?utm_term=.4575f40789e4

It failed over and over because voters who dont participate in polls, quietly contacted their reps and voiced their actual opinion.  Overwhelmingly, most people support legal immigration not amnesty.  Most people wouldnt mind some reform of immigration but many have real issues with Amnesty. 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/25/opinions/clinton-illegal-immigration-froma-harrop/index.html

Most people have a sense of fairness, and providing amnesty for illegals actions grates against any sense of fairness IF you consider the efforts made to get here legally by millions and millions, from many dangerous places.  Additionally and for example, isnt the reality you would think I was a horrible parent if I smuggled my kid into mexico, via human smugglers, across arid climates, often without enough food and water in the dark of night in pursue of a job?  Many would call that child abuse and declare me an unfit mother for not considering the consequences for the child and the unnecessary risk I put on my kids well-being.  What future would he/she have, living outside the legal system, simply due to the choices I make for the kid? 

I am not expecting the illegals to be held to a lower standard like you do.  I am holding them to the same standard as everyone else.

Its not me that is a hypocrite Shiranu.  Its you. 

Quote from: Shiranu
Trump, Arpaio, Ken Paxton, Abott, et. al. is the height of your political influence. You're just a bitter little man with a sad little political viewpoint that, in a hundred years, will go in the history books like segregation, eugenics, anti-LGBT laws and slavery.  I hope you can find peace in that before you die, because I cant imagine the shame that must bring.


Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2017, 10:14:25 PM »
> implying I support Hillary

My God, you are stretching now.

If being right is that important to you, then I cede you are correct. You will still be on the wrong side of history and morality, but by all means you have my seal of approval. I know how valuable that is.

Just a tip though, the next time you try to convince someone of something, try not to make your opening words, and every paragraph that follows, be about how shitty and terrible their family, their friends, their neighbours are. Tends to make people a little less likely to hear you out.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 10:17:31 PM by Shiranu »
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2017, 10:35:44 PM »
Downvoted because fuck the Fine Bros.

Good video, though. Hopefully more of the big YouTubers start picking up on this issue.

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2017, 10:39:00 PM »
Downvoted because fuck the Fine Bros.

Good video, though. Hopefully more of the big YouTubers start picking up on this issue.

Fair enough. I still watch the channel, but I do feel dirty about it because... well, as you said, fuck the Fine Bros.
Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline Baruch

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2017, 11:56:16 PM »
People who love the law, shouldn't see it being made, to paraphrase Chancellor Bismarck

This is why I support criminality .. including what Congress and the rest of those crooks do ;-)

Fuck all your damn laws!  Do what is right, then forget the rest.

And yes, the Clintons are chameleons ... not people.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 11:57:51 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline pr126

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2017, 01:07:37 AM »
I describe Shiranu's arguments as follows:

  Appeal to emotion
Quote
Appeal to emotion or argumentum ad passiones is a logical fallacy characterized by the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence.[1] This kind of appeal to emotion is a type of red herring and encompasses several logical fallacies, including appeal to consequences, appeal to fear, appeal to flattery, appeal to pity, appeal to ridicule, appeal to spite, and wishful thinking.

Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument. Thus, the validity of the premises that establish such an argument does not prove to be verifiable.[2]

Appeals to emotion are intended to draw inward feelings from the acquirer of the information. And in turn, the acquirer of the information is intended to be convinced that the statements that were presented in the fallacious argument are true; solely on the basis that the statements may induce emotional stimulation such as fear, pity and joy. Though these emotions may be provoked by an appeal to emotion fallacy, effectively winning the argument, substantial proof of the argument is not offered, and the argument's premises remain invalid.[3][4][5]

And add to that a generous helping of ad hominem.






“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2017, 01:34:41 AM »
I describe Shiranu's arguments as follows:

  Appeal to emotion
And add to that a generous helping of ad hominem.








Well howdie dee, we gotter selves a circer jerk boys!
Om Mani Padme Hum

Online Shiranu (OP)

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2017, 02:03:28 AM »
Again, if you expect me or the majority of normal people to find the exact same argument that is used to defend the War on Drugs and that was used to excuse segregation, eugenics, mandatory lobotomies, the death penalty, etc. compelling, you're spinning your tires. Just like I am bashing my head against a wall taking you seriously, hence the last couple posts being more and more completely irrelevant to what you said.

But for one brief moment of seriousness... if the opposite of "appealing to emotion" is, "appealing to the law for the law's sake", then I am perfectly happy wearing that badge of so-called shame that comes with appealing to people's humanity. You can go play Dr. Spock in some little commune or something, I think yall would actually probably enjoy that and so would everyone else, so it's a win/win.

In short...

>Actual DACA recipients and descendants of illegals explain why the law is moronic from both a logical and moral standpoint.
>"Nah bruh, law is law!"
>"Well, sure, but when the law is saying let's hurt people, then maybe it's time to rexamin..."
>"NAH BRUH THE LAW IS THE LAW BRUH! WHY YOU GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT! LOL STUPID EMOTIONS! EMOTIONS LEAD TO TERRIBLE THINGS!"
>"But the law is literally actively hurting people, the exact opposite of it's sole purpose of existence, and law based on just "logic" has been historically diasterous..."
>"LOL NAH BRUH LAW IS LAW BRUH! WHO CARES ABOUT PEOPLE, IT'S THE LAW BRUH!"



Om Mani Padme Hum

Offline pr126

Re: Right In the Feels: Teens React to DACA
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2017, 02:04:14 AM »
QED
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper