Author Topic: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...  (Read 299 times)

Offline Baruch (OP)

Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« on: September 11, 2017, 12:49:54 PM »
http://bostonreview.net/politics/niko-kolodny-how-people-vote

Maybe it is time, to go to the Athenian method ... random selection from a pool of voters (who are male middle to upper class).  Like jury duty, only you have to serve longer.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2017, 01:58:08 PM »
http://bostonreview.net/politics/niko-kolodny-how-people-vote

Maybe it is time, to go to the Athenian method ... random selection from a pool of voters (who are male middle to upper class).  Like jury duty, only you have to serve longer.

Well, there is your problem... Those uppity women and minorities and minorities who just INSIST on voting.  And not counting the slaves the Athenians kept...

Let's put it this way.  Whatever voting requirements you demand, you are JUST short of being included.  I'm included of course. How would that feel?  Trust ME certainly to "represent" you...  I promise to think of theists every election day. Bwa-Hah-Hah!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 07:12:40 AM »
Well, there is your problem... Those uppity women and minorities and minorities who just INSIST on voting.  And not counting the slaves the Athenians kept...

Let's put it this way.  Whatever voting requirements you demand, you are JUST short of being included.  I'm included of course. How would that feel?  Trust ME certainly to "represent" you...  I promise to think of theists every election day. Bwa-Hah-Hah!

Almost all Americans are wage slaves or debt slaves ... and so are ineligible for citizenship.  And a Spartan woman wouldn't be cowed ... she would cut your heart out.  As a retiree ... you are an exploiter of public finances (good for you too).  Athenian citizens only represented themselves not each other.  Remember, that is what pissed off Socrates' jury ... when he proposed that they provide him a retirement income for his excellent service to the State.

As far as the theories of John Locke et al ... pure Enlightenment hogwash.  Only the upper class should vote.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 07:17:59 AM by Baruch »
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Offline Sal1981

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 08:44:18 AM »
The "interesting" results of people's votes is a symptom of shortfall of basic education and lack of political insight, IMO.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman


Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 01:23:57 PM »
The "interesting" results of people's votes is a symptom of shortfall of basic education and lack of political insight, IMO.

Thanks for chiming in, Thomas Jefferson ;-)  That is the theory.  Originally only upper class people could take the time to be educated enough to be responsible for public affairs.  The Founders made a leap in the dark, with the caveat, that then whoever was allowed to vote (not as many as now) ... they had to become educated in a public education system that rewarded good students with scholarship to college, to produce mentatheletes (see Plato's Republic).  Too bad that didn't work out.  The stinking peasants now stink with an education instead of without.
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Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 01:24:51 PM »
I think we pay those guys in Washington way too much.

Since insider trading by Congress was made legal again ... there is no need to pay them at all.  They make enough thru insider deals under the table.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2017, 03:32:23 AM »
Almost all Americans are wage slaves or debt slaves ... and so are ineligible for citizenship.  And a Spartan woman wouldn't be cowed ... she would cut your heart out.  As a retiree ... you are an exploiter of public finances (good for you too).  Athenian citizens only represented themselves not each other.  Remember, that is what pissed off Socrates' jury ... when he proposed that they provide him a retirement income for his excellent service to the State.

As far as the theories of John Locke et al ... pure Enlightenment hogwash.  Only the upper class should vote.

Your ideas of "citizenship" are JUST a few centuries out of date.  Not surprising.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2017, 07:24:04 AM »
Your ideas of "citizenship" are JUST a few centuries out of date.  Not surprising.

Your view is conveniently ... slavish.  But then you worked for the government ;-)  Oh DMV Cavebear from hell.  Yes, slavery is the new freedom, Winston Smith.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2017, 08:34:13 AM »
Your view is conveniently ... slavish.  But then you worked for the government ;-)  Oh DMV Cavebear from hell.  Yes, slavery is the new freedom, Winston Smith.

Spent 30 years saving us taxpayers money.  About $1M per year and I got $3,000 for that.    I should have gone into business and gotten half.  But I stayed because no one else could do it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 08:02:04 PM »
Spent 30 years saving us taxpayers money.  About $1M per year and I got $3,000 for that.    I should have gone into business and gotten half.  But I stayed because no one else could do it.

I salute your service.  But you seem like the guy who would enjoy pulling wings off of customers ;-)  I am not against government, government expenditures or government employees.  Just to make things crystal clear.  And I don't think business is as easy as you make out vs government employment .. but I wouldn't know.  It wasn't easy for my father or his father before him.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 05:07:51 AM »
I salute your service.  But you seem like the guy who would enjoy pulling wings off of customers ;-)  I am not against government, government expenditures or government employees.  Just to make things crystal clear.  And I don't think business is as easy as you make out vs government employment .. but I wouldn't know.  It wasn't easy for my father or his father before him.

My "customers" were other govt offices.  I went in and showed them problems to fix and usually how to solve them.  Like the cell phone that was costing them $14,000 per month they didn't know about because they couldn't read the data from the vendors.  I showed them how to contact the vendors and demand refunds for improper billings.  And I showed them how to find that idiot who was using his cell phone account 24/7 to connect his computer from home without a capped data plan. 

Got any questions now?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch (OP)

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 01:44:03 PM »
My "customers" were other govt offices.  I went in and showed them problems to fix and usually how to solve them.  Like the cell phone that was costing them $14,000 per month they didn't know about because they couldn't read the data from the vendors.  I showed them how to contact the vendors and demand refunds for improper billings.  And I showed them how to find that idiot who was using his cell phone account 24/7 to connect his computer from home without a capped data plan. 

Got any questions now?

So you were a cop and a snitch?  Yes, inattention to detail is expensive.  And government is big bucks.  Thanks for reeling a little of it in.  But bean counters don't count for much in my territory.  You strangle resources so necessary IT projects fail.  Got any questions now?
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Interesting critical review of how people actually vote ...
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2017, 02:25:11 PM »
So you were a cop and a snitch?  Yes, inattention to detail is expensive.  And government is big bucks.  Thanks for reeling a little of it in.  But bean counters don't count for much in my territory.  You strangle resources so necessary IT projects fail.  Got any questions now?

Strictly saving wasted money on bad cell phone choices and some deliberate abuse.  I did bust a few people who were running private businesses from their govt desks.  Racking up outrageous costs at taxpayer expense when they should have been been working for the taxpayers.  You don't object to reducing "govt waste and abuse" I hope?

I also spent a lot of time in govt promoting increased efficiency through I T and data management.  IF I had become the office manager where I worked, several programs would have become a LOT more data-oriented.  But I hate telling people what to do.  I'm a self starter and self manager, the others weren't and and saved my sanity by not dragging horses to a water bucket they wouldn't drink from. 

I didn't have the goal of making a silk purse from a sow's ear.

Got more questions?

You have the wrong guy to pin the "waste" label on. 

Had I gotten 10% of the money I saved YOU the taxpayers, I would be in the 1% today.  As it is, I'm not in the 20%.  My gift to my fellow citizens...

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950