Author Topic: Atheism Poll  (Read 4390 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #90 on: September 11, 2017, 04:13:01 PM »
Excellent non-response.

No, Blackleaf is correct.  The burden of proof is on the theists for the claim there is a deity of ANY sort.  The question of "what, huh?" is not the claim to be defended.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #91 on: September 11, 2017, 05:35:56 PM »

The evidence I claim doesn't exist... I'd rather have you say, the evidence I don't claim to exist. In the example, I don't claim my neighbour didn't shit in my backyard. (PARDON ME FOR THE FOUL LANGUAGE!) I don't claim that I have evidence. And not in the example, I don't claim that no creator POTENTIALLY COULD have created the universe. I'm just saying what you concider to be evidence of that assertion is not evidence in favor of said assertion. Indeed, as in my example, no evidence is brought forth of YOUR CLAIM, without me necessarily having a contradictory claim. It COULD be that god created everything. I don't see a reason to believe this, whatsoever. It could be that my neighbor takes dumps in my backyard and removes them again. But, again, I don't see a reason to believe this.

Just curious when you talk to co-workers, friends or meeting someone new if you use such crude analogies? Your analogy was just self-serving. You're entitled to doubt, disbelieve, believe, swear by think anything you want about anything you want whether there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence in favor of it or in spite of an overwhelming amount of evidence against a proposition. What you're not entitled to do is state a counter claim has no evidence in favor of it because you say so and declare its the same as a story you make up because you say so.

Its fair to assume you don't consider the existence of the universe and sentient life evidence of a creator. I do consider it evidence of a Creator and I consider a Creator to be a better explanation for all we observe than the counter explanation it was the result of unintended happenstance. 
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #92 on: September 11, 2017, 05:37:51 PM »
Well, isn't that special...
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #93 on: September 11, 2017, 05:40:08 PM »
The point is that not all thinking and reasoning is equal.  This is Drew's obsession.  He wants to put religion and science on equal footing.  It's a tall order which no one could ever achieve, least of all, Drew.  From what I can tell, he has made it his mission.

What religion am I promoting?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Offline Cavebear

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #94 on: September 11, 2017, 05:48:58 PM »
Just curious when you talk to co-workers, friends or meeting someone new if you use such crude analogies? Your analogy was just self-serving. You're entitled to doubt, disbelieve, believe, swear by think anything you want about anything you want whether there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence in favor of it or in spite of an overwhelming amount of evidence against a proposition. What you're not entitled to do is state a counter claim has no evidence in favor of it because you say so and declare its the same as a story you make up because you say so.

Its fair to assume you don't consider the existence of the universe and sentient life evidence of a creator. I do consider it evidence of a Creator and I consider a Creator to be a better explanation for all we observe than the counter explanation it was the result of unintended happenstance.

Are you just not getting the understanding of whose assertion it is?  You assert the claim there is a deity. YOU have to prove it.  Stop being Trumpish.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Hijiri Byakuren

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Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #95 on: September 11, 2017, 05:52:32 PM »
Can't see the poll on Tapatalk. What are my options?


Sent while riding my mighty steed: Godzilla

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #96 on: September 11, 2017, 06:05:20 PM »
How certain are you God defined as Creator of the universe doesn't exist?


99.99999%


5 (71.4%)
90%


1 (14.3%)
80%


1 (14.3%)
70%
0 (0%)
60% or below
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 7
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Online Mr.Obvious

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #97 on: September 11, 2017, 06:15:03 PM »
Just curious when you talk to co-workers, friends or meeting someone new if you use such crude analogies? Your analogy was just self-serving. You're entitled to doubt, disbelieve, believe, swear by think anything you want about anything you want whether there is an overwhelming preponderance of evidence in favor of it or in spite of an overwhelming amount of evidence against a proposition. What you're not entitled to do is state a counter claim has no evidence in favor of it because you say so and declare its the same as a story you make up because you say so.

Its fair to assume you don't consider the existence of the universe and sentient life evidence of a creator. I do consider it evidence of a Creator and I consider a Creator to be a better explanation for all we observe than the counter explanation it was the result of unintended happenstance.

Not to my grandma. No. But to others, less sensitive than an (almost) eighty year old woman? Why yes. Again. It's just poo. Is your skin truly that thin? Really?
My analogy is not self-serving, by the way. Seeing as you feel the need to keep saying that to convince yourself or something. It goes like this in it's most basic form, without the poo-padding. You make a claim that doesn't explain anything more than is already present in my backyard (aka reality) than if it were absent, a superfluous claim and explanation if you will... You have no evidence to back up your claim. And then you seem to think I must explain why I believe your unproven claim is false, as if I am the one making a positive claim that my neighbour doesn't do that. Do you see how stupid that would be? Me having to point out how certain I am my neighbor doesn't do that? Put a number on it? And provide evidence for something I have no reason to believe is true?

In any case. You say you are 55% certain there was a creator. I, again, think putting a number on it is weird, but whatever. That's just a difference between us.
You are pretty close to 50%, you say. Does that mean you could hypothetically accept that everything we see here in this "creation" is actually formed without a divine creator through purely natural processes? No supernatural origin needed? If so, and you can't actually provide any evidence for this creator as an instagator of the natural processes you'd use to explain this reality without him, don't you see there really is no reason to put that deity there in the first place? In that case, if you could see it work without him and without having any evidence for him, you are just adding a useless step. A non-answer. And the only reason you believe that the things which you could see work without him are actually evidence for him is because it's an answer that appeals to you. It's what you 'feel' is logical. But that's all it is then, isn't it? A matter of feeling. It's what you feel comfortable with. It's not what is logical. It's not what is pointed at by the workings of the universe. It's what you feel should be.
Well, I'm sorry. But I don't care about how you feel.
You make a claim. You back it up. Don't shift the burden of proof, just because you can't defend what you want to be true.

And learn to deal with poo, dude. Everyone does it.
E = Mc²

In the end, we are all standing in the dark,
trying to figure out why we are here.
But let us not choose one direction
without proof of where it is headed.

Check your pocket for matches
so we can observe and learn together
as fast friends and relative idiots.

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #98 on: September 11, 2017, 06:28:30 PM »
The word you're looking for isn't foreign...its bullshit.

There ya go--you spew bullshit--that WAS the word I was looking for.  Thanks.

For you everything is a belief.  There is no such thing as a fact, reasoning, critical thinking--it all boils down to what you feel in your guts--what your belief is.  You and your kind are why we have trump.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2017, 08:50:41 PM »

My analogy is not self-serving, by the way. Seeing as you feel the need to keep saying that to convince yourself or something. It goes like this in it's most basic form, without the poo-padding. You make a claim that doesn't explain anything more than is already present in my backyard (aka reality) than if it were absent, a superfluous claim and explanation if you will... You have no evidence to back up your claim. And then you seem to think I must explain why I believe your unproven claim is false, as if I am the one making a positive claim that my neighbour doesn't do that. Do you see how stupid that would be? Me having to point out how certain I am my neighbor doesn't do that? Put a number on it? And provide evidence for something I have no reason to believe is true?

I do have evidence and offered two facts you ignored, the existence of the universe and the fact of sentient life. You do acknowledge its a fact the universe exists and sentient life exists correct? If you want to argue those facts are better explained by what you believe that's fine. What you and most atheists do is attempt to preemptively claim those facts aren't evidence because they don't personally convince you a Creator caused the universe. The correct analogy is you see a pile of shit in your back yard but because you can't believe your neighbor is so crude to take a dump on your lawn you claim the shit isn't evidence. Thus making your lack of belief evidence and argument proof. 
 

Quote
You are pretty close to 50%, you say. Does that mean you could hypothetically accept that everything we see here in this "creation" is actually formed without a divine creator through purely natural processes? No supernatural origin needed? If so, and you can't actually provide any evidence for this creator as an instagator of the natural processes you'd use to explain this reality without him, don't you see there really is no reason to put that deity there in the first place? In that case, if you could see it work without him and without having any evidence for him, you are just adding a useless step. A non-answer. And the only reason you believe that the things which you could see work without him are actually evidence for him is because it's an answer that appeals to you. It's what you 'feel' is logical. But that's all it is then, isn't it? A matter of feeling. It's what you feel comfortable with. It's not what is logical. It's not what is pointed at by the workings of the universe. It's what you feel should be.

I view naturalism as second runner up to theism. If we discovered this was one of many or an infinitude of universes with differing characteristics that would highly favor of naturalism. If we find life elsewhere especially life that couldn't have come from earth in anyway would alter the equation. If a theory of everything explains why the conditions for life and the laws of physics obtained would be a big feather in the cap of naturalism. If a naturalistic (non-god) explanation of how the universe came into existence actually pans out that would be highly favorable to naturalism. You are aware that scientists have created virtual universes I assume. Could those universes have just as well come about by happenstance? Why not? How can one say it takes willful intelligence to cause to virtual universe to exist but non-intelligence is capable of causing a universe that allows for sentient life to exist?

By the way Mr Obvious, its not burden shifting its examining the entire picture. If criminologists come across a corpse its not enough to rule out an intelligent cause to determine its 'natural causes' you also have to come up with an explanation of how it occurred naturally to rule out the possibility it was intentional. Whether an active disbelief or a lack of belief you still have to question whether what we observe could have been caused by what we call natural (non-god) causes. The notion atheism or naturalism is some kind of default position is just atheist hogwash. The reason I can assign a percent is because unlike atheists I'm not in denial there is evidence to support their position that defrays from the certainty of my position.   

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #100 on: September 11, 2017, 08:52:05 PM »
There ya go--you spew bullshit--that WAS the word I was looking for.  Thanks.

For you everything is a belief.  There is no such thing as a fact, reasoning, critical thinking--it all boils down to what you feel in your guts--what your belief is.  You and your kind are why we have trump.

If it were up to you and your kind we'd have Hillary...shivers at the thought.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #101 on: September 11, 2017, 10:44:00 PM »
If it were up to you and your kind we'd have Hillary...shivers at the thought.
As blind and stupid you are, I'm not surprised.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #102 on: September 12, 2017, 12:01:22 AM »
Plane geometry doesn't apply to the curved surface of the Earth.  You get into non-Euclidian geometry there. where the angles are 180 degree+.  Kant can't apply there anyway.

Like most people ... Kant worshipped Euclid.  There is actually very little that is "a priori", if anything.  It is all "a posteriori".
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 01:32:19 AM by Baruch »
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Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #103 on: September 12, 2017, 12:56:01 AM »
If it were up to you and your kind we'd have Hillary...shivers at the thought.

Yeah. We might have had a normal President who doesn't habitually break the law, show absolutely zero competence at the job, or surround themselves with even more incompetent people. We sure dodged a bullet there.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #104 on: September 12, 2017, 01:32:54 AM »
Yeah. We might have had a normal President who doesn't habitually break the law, show absolutely zero competence at the job, or surround themselves with even more incompetent people. We sure dodged a bullet there.

Bizarro D or Bizarro R ... just don't call in Bizarro Superman.
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