Author Topic: Atheism Poll  (Read 1699 times)

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2017, 09:47:49 AM »
It's been done.  Read your own threads about it.

I have on many occasions and never saw conclusive smoking gun evidence that would convince anyone with 100% certainty. Only faith statements.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2017, 09:55:06 AM »
I have on many occasions and never saw conclusive smoking gun evidence that would convince anyone with 100% certainty. Only faith statements.

Ahem ... dogma.  So many dog lovers here ;-)
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Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2017, 09:57:27 AM »
Is Bugs Bunny a verb, too???  How about Pecos Bill--another verb?  So, according to your dictates then, god is a what, not a who.  A what?  A fiction, that's what.

Still technically a who, fiction or real life.  Grammar Nazis say so.  And a who is ... what they do.  Is Bugs Bunny anything beyond what we see him do in the cartoons?  No.  Still making wrong turns at Albuquerque.
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Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2017, 10:13:43 AM »
The analogy serves to show The ridiculousness of your way of Looking at it, in my eyes. It's just an absurd scenario. And it's only poo. Get over yourself. Poo is funny. If i were to go vulgar, I'd find a much worse example, buddy.

So you can be even more classless...good to know.

Quote
In any case, if you don't want to keep getting 'atheism is a lack of a belief' thrown in your face around here, stop making threads showing us that we need to Explain it To you. It boils down to The same discussion there as it does here, because you don't seem to get that is effectively The point of view of most atheists and what it entails for discussion. You are a man who is repeating himself over and over again drew, and who then has The audacity to complain he gets the same arguments thrown back at him.

Your analogy is totally self serving. The evidence you claim doesn't exist is the same for either of us, we observe ourselves and a universe. You have an explanation based on that evidence as do I. The notion I'm making a claim with no evidence is just the stock and trade of atheists everywhere.   
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2017, 10:38:01 AM »
I have on many occasions and never saw conclusive smoking gun evidence that would convince anyone with 100% certainty. Only faith statements.
Of course you did.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2017, 10:42:28 AM »
  Is Bugs Bunny anything beyond what we see him do in the cartoons?  No.  Still making wrong turns at Albuquerque.
Really?  I'd say Bugs is just as real as your g-d.  Both are cartoonish--at best.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2017, 10:46:46 AM »
I have on many occasions and never saw conclusive smoking gun evidence that would convince anyone with 100% certainty. Only faith statements.

There are no faith statements for atheism. There is no atheistic dogma or creed. All we have in common is one thing: a lack of belief in gods. Your inability to comprehend this casts doubt on your intelligence.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2017, 11:05:42 AM »
There are no faith statements for atheism. There is no atheistic dogma or creed. All we have in common is one thing: a lack of belief in gods. Your inability to comprehend this casts doubt on your intelligence.

I hope those who claimed to have a 99% or a 100% certainty a Creator of the universe doesn't exist have more than a tepid lack of belief.

Given what we don't know about how or why the universe came about and why the myriad of conditions to allow life obtained the claim of 99% certainty is a faith-belief claim. Its the same you would say about anyone who claims to be 99% certain we owe our existence to God.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2017, 11:13:46 AM »
What difference does it make either way? Whether there's a creator God or not seems to make exactly zero difference to the way things work. Shit happens with or without a creator God, so - so what?
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Offline aitm

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2017, 11:35:48 AM »
How certain are you .....
What part of 100% confuses you?
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2017, 12:05:40 PM »
I hope those who claimed to have a 99% or a 100% certainty a Creator of the universe doesn't exist have more than a tepid lack of belief.

Given what we don't know about how or why the universe came about and why the myriad of conditions to allow life obtained the claim of 99% certainty is a faith-belief claim. Its the same you would say about anyone who claims to be 99% certain we owe our existence to God.

"God doesn't exist" and "God most likely doesn't exist" are not claims, they are responses to a claim. Specifically, the claim that God or gods exist. It is just as reasonable to dismiss the claim that divine beings exist as it is to dismiss the idea of invisible pink unicorns. Until evidence for the positive claim (your claim) is provided, the reasonable position to take is one of skepticism. If religions ceased to exist, so would atheism. But if atheists all disappeared without a trace one day, theism would still exist in many forms.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2017, 12:18:09 PM »
Drew attempts a reprise of his prior (according to him) glory.

Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2017, 12:58:53 PM »
Really?  I'd say Bugs is just as real as your g-d.  Both are cartoonish--at best.

Your presence on the Internet isn't you, it is a work of fiction.  Same as for all posters.  So are you saying you don't exist, or that you are cartoonish?

Drew ... you failed epistemology.  The others failed metaphysics.  The law court version of determining reality is ... political (cough).  They have added science to it, but it still isn't science.  A court determines guilt, not truth.  Elections are like a very big jury too.  Political ... to determine guilt.  Hillary was found guilty of failing the election, not guilty of failing any truth.  If elections were about truth (whatever that is) ... we would never be done arguing about the result of the election (cough).  Notice how ... politically, it is very necessary to hide the truth, during elections, and while governing.  Plato said ... the rulers are the only ones who should be allowed to lie.  People lie in court all the time .. or are simply mistaken.  Same as real life, not as in a rigorous laboratory.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 01:05:02 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2017, 01:12:02 PM »
What is the point of examining the POV of others?  Why examine one's own POV?

1. We need the contrast of other humans to see ourselves more clearly.  Examining ourselves in isolation is very solipsist.

2. Making an informed self examination, reveals that we have a POV, and that this is based on dogma, reason and experience.  The dogma part is the hardest to identify.  The reason is fraught with errors ... and experience can only be partial.

3. Drew ... you can clearly see the dogma.  But what of it?  Nobody will change their dogma, assuming that they are aware of it.  The others can clearly see your dogma ... and you are unlikely to change.  That is how dogma=axioms work.  It took how long for people to realize that Euclidean geometry wasn't the only possibility?  But that was because Euclidean geometry is very useful in the real world, even if in some circumstances it isn't.  And Euclid (building on the work of others) did a bang up job.  Think ... it is now 1500, we still don't know if the world is round or not, because Columbus didn't make it to China.  Magellan's crew hasn't even set sail yet.  Now try to convince the Vatican that the world is round ;-))
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Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Atheism Poll
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2017, 02:24:29 PM »
"God doesn't exist" and "God most likely doesn't exist" are not claims, they are responses to a claim. Specifically, the claim that God or gods exist. It is just as reasonable to dismiss the claim that divine beings exist as it is to dismiss the idea of invisible pink unicorns. Until evidence for the positive claim (your claim) is provided, the reasonable position to take is one of skepticism. If religions ceased to exist, so would atheism. But if atheists all disappeared without a trace one day, theism would still exist in many forms.

Blackleaf are you really going to hang your hat on this semantic difference? I can play the negative claim game too. I can claim to be an anaturalist (that's someone who lacks belief in the claim naturalistic forces alone can account for our existence) and then say I make no claim. The problem isn't with your fellow atheists who often play the game themselves its with objective impartial people who read our posts. Can we drop the silly semantic game? The claim God exists and is responsible for the existence of the universe is no less a claim then God doesn't exist and unguided naturalistic forces account for all we observe. 

The irony here is that atheists are so afraid to say they have an opinion about the existence or non existence of a creator. They don't know for sure its true but its what they think is true minus conclusive evidence it is true. Instead they make a fact claim they can't support or pretend they don't make any claim.

A dead body by itself is reasonable evidence the cause was either natural or intentional. Barring any evidence other than a dead body both conclusions are supported by the available evidence...a dead body. Further examination may reveal evidence that comports with the belief it was natural causes or may reveal evidence that comports with the belief it was intentional.

The existence of the universe by itself is evidence it was caused unintentionally by natural forces or had been caused intentionally by a creator. Neither side of this argument knows how or why the universe came into existence which is why the claim one side is 100% sure is just pissing in the wind and the wind is blowing in your own faces. Further examination of the universe reveals exacting conditions, laws of physics and properties had to obtain right from the beginning for it to result in the existence of stars, galaxies, planets and solar systems which led to the existence of life. That comports with the belief it was caused intentionally. On the other hand there are trillion of planets, much of the universe seems inhospitable and chaotic. Evolution is a reasonable theory of how organisms (once started) evolved into more complicated life. How is it I the theist can see both sides of the coin but the people who supposedly have no axe to grind just following where ever the data leads can't bring themselves to acknowledge there is another side of the coin?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein