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Atheism Poll

Started by Drew_2017, September 09, 2017, 03:39:24 PM

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Unbeliever

Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 07:26:02 PM
People are just like that ... 4 eyes (if you wear glasses) and bloodsuckers.
Hey, us 4-eyes have been sufficiently oppressed already, thank you!
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Unbeliever

#166
Quote from: Baruch on September 14, 2017, 07:38:03 PM
Smart people have questions ... dumb people have answers.  Atheists and theists are both arrogant, both are dumb.  Just don't go full retard into nihilism.

I went "full retard into nihilism" long ago, so your warning comes too late. Nihilism seems to me to be the default world-view until such time as evidence for intrinsic meaning or purpose can be discovered. I don't feel any existential angst about this, nor despair. It's just the way I see the universe, like seeing the color red - I can't help but see it that way, since I'm not color blind.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman

Baruch

I think you misquoted ... mechanically, the second half of my statement.

I hope you got my indirect praise (you have questions still).
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Drew_2017

Quote from: Unbeliever on September 14, 2017, 02:49:54 PM
I think the problem here is that theists look at the universe and see the need for a creator, and atheists don't. It's simple, really, just a matter of differing points of view. Some people, for various reasons, just want to have a creator God because it makes them feel safer, somehow, to think that the most powerful possible being cares enough about them to make sure they stay snug and warm inside his loving arms.

I wouldn't see the need of a Creator if we had some inkling of how mindless naturalistic forces accomplished all we observe without trying or wanting to. Suppose there is a Creator of the universe. Would you say that person has to be pretty smart? If the Creator turned out to be a scientist in another universe would you think that scientist is a lot smarter and advanced then we are? You're response should be no a total moron could cause the universe to exist without even trying or wanting to just by pure happenstance. I think the reason most people reject belief in a Creator is because they are fed up with religious beliefs and people, not because they know how our existence came about. I know I'm shifting the burden of evidence to people who claim to be 80% or more sure no Creator was involved.

QuoteI wouldn't care what anyone does or does not believe, except that those who can be convinced to believe absurdities can also be persuaded to commit atrocities. We see it every day in the news cycle.

The belief we owe our existence to mindless mechanistic forces that inexplicably came into existence and proceeded to create a universe that would produce something unlike what it came from, life and mind is fairly absurd. Secondly its not as if we have a working model of how naturalistic forces caused the universe or themselves to exist so it's clearly a counter belief...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Baruch

#169
Drew ... we don't even need to discuss the Big Bang ... materialists only have mumbo jumbo to explain how mind comes from matter.  This confusion is why they think that computer programs (AI) are conscious, and that robots like in scifi are real.  Epiphenomenalism isn't an explanation, any more than the "god of the gaps" is a proper understanding of religion.  Materialists engage in the same apologetics and polemics as any other ... religion.  The fact that my hand is alive, and that I can be conscious of it ... is beyond physical explanation.  Hence my living hand shows that I am at least a demigod.  Rocks can't do what I can do.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hydra009

Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 15, 2017, 11:17:25 PMI know I'm shifting the burden of evidence
I am in complete and utter shock at this totally uncharacteristic behavior.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on September 15, 2017, 11:42:47 PM
Rocks can't do what I can do.
I agree that rocks can't do what you do--sometimes they can do it better.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 16, 2017, 09:02:16 AM
I agree that rocks can't do what you do--sometimes they can do it better.

Guess you are just a rock head ;-)
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 16, 2017, 09:02:16 AM
I agree that rocks can't do what you do--sometimes they can do it better.
What that means for you is--silence can be golden.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Baruch

Quote from: Mike Cl on September 16, 2017, 09:04:55 AM
What that means for you is--silence can be golden.

You wanna see my gold nuggets?
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Mike Cl

Quote from: Baruch on September 16, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
You wanna see my gold nuggets?
I don't think your nuggets are gold any more.  Mica, maybe??
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Drew_2017

Quote from: Hydra009 on September 15, 2017, 11:50:46 PM
I am in complete and utter shock at this totally uncharacteristic behavior.

I have my burden to provide evidence and facts to support my claim that God exists which I have often. The poll question was how certain are you God defined as Creator of the universe doesn't exist? To say you're 80 or more certain is a claim. The absurd notion atheists make no claim is atheist folklore. No there isn't some unwritten rule that negative claims get a pass but if they do I will claim to be an anaturalist and take that pass too. I'll even claim my anaturalism is a lack of belief not a disbelief natural forces without plan or intent caused all we observe.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

davoarid

Drew's posts remind me of a bit from CS Lewis's Mere Christianity: it's we atheists who have to maintain that the overwhelming majority of humans who walk and have walked the earth were wrong about the central question of our existence ("Is there a Creator?").

Blackleaf

Quote from: Drew_2017 on September 16, 2017, 04:21:25 PM
I have my burden to provide evidence and facts to support my claim that God exists which I have often. The poll question was how certain are you God defined as Creator of the universe doesn't exist? To say you're 80 or more certain is a claim. The absurd notion atheists make no claim is atheist folklore. No there isn't some unwritten rule that negative claims get a pass but if they do I will claim to be an anaturalist and take that pass too. I'll even claim my anaturalism is a lack of belief not a disbelief natural forces without plan or intent caused all we observe.

Certainty is not a claim. In this case, it's scepticism. Not all claims are worth equal consideration. Given how no spiritual forces have been observed in a controlled and repeatable setting, 80% certainty or more is quite reasonable.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Unbeliever

Quote from: davoarid on September 16, 2017, 09:10:40 PM
Drew's posts remind me of a bit from CS Lewis's Mere Christianity: it's we atheists who have to maintain that the overwhelming majority of humans who walk and have walked the earth were wrong about the central question of our existence ("Is there a Creator?").
I just came across that book the other day, but I haven't read it yet. Too many other things to read first.

I think the idea of God is just obsolete - we have no need of that hypothesis.
God Not Found
"There is a sucker born-again every minute." - C. Spellman