Author Topic: What date do you estimate atheism will overtake theism in the world population  (Read 784 times)

Online Baruch

You would get along great with Mindy from The Animaniacs...

Brain: Come, Mindy. It's time for us to conquer the world!

Mindy: Why?

Brain: By right of superior intelligence, I am best suited to guide the destiny of this planet.

Mindy: Why?

Brain: My empirical powers give me the mandate.

Mindy: Why?

Brain: BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING I WANT TO DO!!!

And you would get along well with Brain.  So why do your plans fail, every F'ing episode?
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Online Baruch

For some reason the Millerites stick in my mind for use as the 'poster child' of this kind of stupid.  It is not rare and does not happen in only christianity.  The religious can see, experience and live thru all manner of stuff like this--and still believe.  Amazing!--at least to me.

Walking is amazing to a snake ;-)  Relatively speaking, the act of a demigod ;-))
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 10:51:58 PM by Baruch »
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Walking is amazing to a snake ;-)  Relatively speaking, the act of a demigod ;-))
And snake handling by those mentally challenged christians is amazing to me----too.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Baruch

And snake handling by those mentally challenged christians is amazing to me----too.

I wouldn't do it, but I understand the religious symbolism.  Snake priestesses in Bronze Age Crete did something similar ... and they were women with a natural fear of snakes.  Clearly the origin of the Eve story goes back to priestesses like that.  Alexander's mom was a snake charmer to.  And there are modern villages in India that not only worship cobras, but let their children play with them.  Don't you want to taste the forbidden fruit, have knowledge of good and evil?  I dare you ...
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Offline Drew_2017

The reason most beliefs are discarded is when facts and data call into question the veracity of a claim. There isn't as yet a better explanation rooted in facts and data that accounts for our existence and the existence of the universe. The belief God created the universe and life is a belief just as the belief mindless mechanistic forces minus plan or intent caused the universe and life to exist is a belief.

Either the universe came from nothing or the universe and a god came from nothing. One explanation requires a few more assumptions than the other.

You make my argument for me. You don't know the universe or God came into existence from nothing. Once again you substitute your belief (the universe came from nothing) as a fact and wonder why only the faithful believe. I grant you the simplest explanation for any phenomenon is it came into existence uncaused out of nothing. We call that magic don't you?





Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

I grant you the simplest explanation for any phenomenon is it came into existence uncaused out of nothing. We call that magic don't you?
Isn't creation ex nihilo the theistic position?   :headscratch:  Why attribute your position to the other side and call it ridiculous?

That doesn't seem like a particularly smart move to me, since a sharp eye will spot that right away.  I suppose you're banking on slow-witted people to not notice the ploy.  I hope I didn't accidentally ruin that by drawing attention to it.  My apologies.  Forget I said anything.

Online Baruch

The reason most beliefs are discarded is when facts and data call into question the veracity of a claim. There isn't as yet a better explanation rooted in facts and data that accounts for our existence and the existence of the universe. The belief God created the universe and life is a belief just as the belief mindless mechanistic forces minus plan or intent caused the universe and life to exist is a belief.

You make my argument for me. You don't know the universe or God came into existence from nothing. Once again you substitute your belief (the universe came from nothing) as a fact and wonder why only the faithful believe. I grant you the simplest explanation for any phenomenon is it came into existence uncaused out of nothing. We call that magic don't you?

It is only magic if there is no visible actor in the scene.  In conventional theology, G-d is invisible.  A deus ex machina.

The argument from Ockam's Razor slits its own throat.  Sometimes things are more complicated, not less.  For materialists, there are no persons.  Including themselves.  Therefore materialists shouldn't exist ... contradiction by so called rationalists.  It is possible for personalism to be real ... a personalist can claim that there are persons, and not self contradict.  A personalist who claims that there are no persons, is simply not paying attention to the man in the mirror.  Materialists are not actually impersonalist, because that is impossible, they are simply "a personalist that claims that there are no persons".  Someone not worth paying attention to. 

Conventional theology is quite in error, G-d is visible and and people are risible all the time .. but we keep our heads up our asses because of the view.
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Online Baruch

Isn't creation ex nihilo the theistic position?   :headscratch:  Why attribute your position to the other side and call it ridiculous?

That doesn't seem like a particularly smart move to me, since a sharp eye will spot that right away.  I suppose you're banking on slow-witted people to not notice the ploy.  I hope I didn't accidentally ruin that by drawing attention to it.  My apologies.  Forget I said anything.

A theistic position.  And relatively recent in human history (early Medieval).  The monarchial model of deity didn't want the Divine King to get his hands dirty.  Better to pull a rabbit out of nothing, instead of out of a hat.  Prior to that gods were scene to be reworking chaos into order.  The older idea is more correct, the newer idea is the result of Greek intellectual masturbation.  Order does come out of chaos, life out of non-life, consciousness out of unconsciousness.  There are fundamental paradoxes .. which are dismissed with handwaving magic by epiphenomenalists.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 11:27:35 PM by Baruch »
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You make my argument for me. You don't know the universe or God came into existence from nothing. Once again you substitute your belief (the universe came from nothing) as a fact and wonder why only the faithful believe. I grant you the simplest explanation for any phenomenon is it came into existence uncaused out of nothing. We call that magic don't you?

It's called quantum mechanics, and it does seem pretty magical sometimes - but it's not magic.




« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 11:26:30 PM by Unbeliever »
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Online Baruch

It's called quantum mechanics, and it does seem pretty magical sometimes - but it's not magic.

Actual quantum mechanics ... there are virtual particles that appear and disappear quickly, so as to not violate Heisenberg.  They don't come into permanent existence like electrons and protons.  Quantum cosmology is simply science masturbation.  Like I dare Drew to build a computer program whose execution is a virtual universe ... I dare you to create a Big Bang.  Otherwise you have nothing to show for your idle speculations, either of you.  Put up or shut up.
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So if all anthropology is based on psychology, and all of psychology is BS .. then we really have nothing worth knowing, because ultimately, to humans, only the human is worth knowing.

How do you know that?
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

C'mon..people keep voting for republicans. What would lead anyone to believe that people are starting to actually think rationally?
No, it's just a matter of time before the next charismatic gazillionaire buys up all the air waves and convinces the masses that he or she became a gazillionaire because god declared it so and the public at large will eat it up.  After all,  many people believe that the current chief shit slinger at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue got rich and became a 'great' businessman because he's just smarter than everyone else and should have been able to lead us all into prosperity and make Umericka great again.. Lather, Rinse, Repeat until your scalp disintegrates to a plastic ball on your neck.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2017, 03:56:16 AM by AllPurposeAtheist »
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Drew_2017

Isn't creation ex nihilo the theistic position?   :headscratch:  Why attribute your position to the other side and call it ridiculous?

I was responding to Blackleaf's post.

Quote
Either the universe came from nothing or the universe and a god came from nothing. One explanation requires a few more assumptions than the other.

Why did Blackleaf attribute my alleged position to his position?  Ex nihilo isn't a theistic position...its a religious one based on the bible.

Quote
That doesn't seem like a particularly smart move to me, since a sharp eye will spot that right away.  I suppose you're banking on slow-witted people to not notice the ploy.  I hope I didn't accidentally ruin that by drawing attention to it.  My apologies.  Forget I said anything.

You're sharp as a marble Hydra...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

You make my argument for me. You don't know the universe or God came into existence from nothing. Once again you substitute your belief (the universe came from nothing) as a fact and wonder why only the faithful believe. I grant you the simplest explanation for any phenomenon is it came into existence uncaused out of nothing. We call that magic don't you?

You're trying to elevate your own unjustified claims by making them equal to atheist "belief." It's a common tactic, so natural to the theist apologist that I doubt you even are aware you're doing it.

The general atheist "belief" is "I don't know." I was merely pointing out the flaw in theist logic when they claim something can't come from nothing, therefor God. Theists then use special pleading to claim their god is exempt from the same rules as the universe. We know that the universe exists; we do not know that any gods exist. So trim off the extra fat.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Online Baruch

How do you know that?

According to E O Wilson, humans are ants.  If he had studied cows, he would research publish that humans are cows.  If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  If you are an unconscious, un-living chaos ... then modern materialism makes sense.  But not otherwise.

So is the study of humans called Anthropology or not?

So is the nature of humans revealed in Human Psychology or not?

Yes, studying other animals, and other animal behavior is ... illuminative.  But it isn't primary.  Unless you are an ant or a cow.
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