Author Topic: Baruch  (Read 323 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2017, 04:03:58 PM »
No doubt, man is to blame.  He created G-d, after all.  Of course, those men who believe in G-d are also to blame, for they just love to do things in that G-d's name.

I agree.  The degree of agency of any god is questionable, including the fictional ones.  Is a fictional person in your head, an agent?  If you think you are a super-hero ... who is at fault of you try to fly off the roof with your cape flapping?  This is why it is important to have good, mature archetypes.  This is also why we mythologize real people, because their actual reality isn't viable as an archetype.
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2017, 04:25:13 PM »
A real Jew is about ethics.  So can never be Likud.  Can never rationalize obviously bad behavior.  That is why Israel is doomed ... it is evil.  In the 20th century, some hurting Jews looked into the Abyss, and the Abyss looked back into them and took them over, killed their Jewish soul.

For a Jew who cares about Ethics, do you believe atheists or theists have a stronger hold on the ethics front?

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2017, 04:36:36 PM »
For a Jew who cares about Ethics, do you believe atheists or theists have a stronger hold on the ethics front?

The problem is ape men.  What actually makes people tick?  A psychological problem that.  I think the get out of jail free card (G-d made me do it) is definitely unethical, and theists have that at their disposal.  Militant religious people in particular.  So for them, whatever individual demons move them, theism isn't an improvement.  One can be ethical without religion or theism ... but the problem with ethics doesn't go away with a swish of the naturalism magic wand.  As I have posted before, people have the ability to develop a conscience, and should do so.  It requires care and feeding to grow stronger.  If you do that, then you will grow ethical, morally, legally (in the objective sense).  But it isn't easy being a ape man.

BTW - Spinoza's major work was an attempt to put ethics on a secular Euclidean basis.  There was very little god in his G-d.  And I am not too different .. hence the choice of avatar.
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2017, 04:38:52 PM »
As I have posted before, people have the ability to develop a conscience, and should do so.

I agree with that.  Except, of course, in the case of psychopaths who psychologically have no conscience.

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2017, 04:53:58 PM »
I agree with that.  Except, of course, in the case of psychopaths who psychologically have no conscience.

That approximately seems to be the case.  Psychology isn't an exact science.  Humanity is an ecology of different kinds of people filling many nitches.  Someone has to be the garbage collector ... just as there has to be vermin who clean up the detritus and dead bodies.  I am not sure that puritanism wouldn't cause us to prematurely eliminate classes of people who only seem superficially undesirable to us.  It is possible that Hitler and Stalin were necessary, in which case I hate my G-d with a passion!
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2017, 04:56:39 PM »
It is possible that Hitler and Stalin were necessary, in which case I hate my G-d with a passion!

Most reasonable people would no longer place any sort of necessary belief in that G-d. 

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2017, 05:26:44 PM »
Most reasonable people would no longer place any sort of necessary belief in that G-d.

That is puritanical prejudice or virtue signaling.  I am in favor of ethics, but under no illusion that I am ethical.  I am not sufficiently flexible to go off into fantasy land because reality sucks.  Reality would still suck, even without a G-d.
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2017, 05:28:38 PM »
That is puritanical prejudice or virtue signaling.  I am in favor of ethics, but under no illusion that I am ethical.  I am not sufficiently flexible to go off into fantasy land because reality sucks.  Reality would still suck, even without a G-d.

Reality is reality with or without a belief in G-d. 

Only those with the belief in G-d presume to think reality is impossible without G-d.

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2017, 05:31:13 PM »
Reality is reality with or without a belief in G-d. 

Only those with the belief in G-d presume to think reality is impossible without G-d.

Irrelevant to the overall suckitude ;-(
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #24 on: September 23, 2017, 05:35:18 PM »
Irrelevant to the overall suckitude ;-(

Suck it up, bitch.

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2017, 05:36:38 PM »
Suck it up, bitch.

Yeah, not virtue signaling, but beef-cake signaling ... be a real man, be an atheist ;-)
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Offline Sorginak (OP)

Re: Baruch
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2017, 05:37:47 PM »
Yeah, not virtue signaling, but beef-cake signaling ... be a real man, be an atheist ;-)

No, just be a real man who accepts that some things are out of your control and that maybe resorting to a fantasy is not the solution.

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2017, 05:41:00 PM »
No, just be a real man who accepts that some things are out of your control and that maybe resorting to a fantasy is not the solution.

I couldn't agree more.  Hence my hatred of politics.  All the candidates should have to dress like IT.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Baruch
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 04:07:13 AM »
Deuteronomy is a Jewish scripture.  Originally Christianity was a Jewish heresy, and I suspect so was Islam. 

DUH!  You "suspect" that because Christianity and Islam use the same prophets and history there MIGHT have been a connection? 

Let me help you understand a few other things.  Many tree leaves are green.  Some roses are red.  Most cars run on gas.


Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Baruch
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 07:21:27 AM »
DUH!  You "suspect" that because Christianity and Islam use the same prophets and history there MIGHT have been a connection? 

Let me help you understand a few other things.  Many tree leaves are green.  Some roses are red.  Most cars run on gas.

I was being nice.  Are you going to give us a lecture on the Rothschilds next, hum?
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