Author Topic: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil  (Read 444 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 06:42:16 PM »
I think you listen to way too much Alex Jones...

Y'all listen to too much Raul Castro.  The government is real, I work for it.  It isn't your friend, it is your master.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2017, 05:48:54 AM »
Y'all listen to too much Raul Castro.  The government is real, I work for it.  It isn't your friend, it is your master.

It is a servant.  If you vote rationally.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2017, 08:35:38 AM »
It is a servant.  If you vote rationally.

Sorry, no rational species on this planet.  18th century political science has failed miserably.  Rational actor economics was stupid out of the gate.  Shoppers are not rational.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2017, 08:54:57 AM »
Shoppers are not rational.
Especially those shopping for a new car.  It's all about ego.  Once you let the car salesmen have his way with you, you win a car.  You win!  You tell yourself you hit the jackpot in an attempt to rid yourself of that nagging feeling that you just got fucked.  If you are dumb enough, you walk out the door feeling good, while the salesman tells the sales manager what a loser you are.  The salesman claims victory to boost his own ego, but the sales manager thinks you and the salesman are both losers, and he feels better about himself.

Offline Baruch

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2017, 11:04:31 AM »
If a car salesman has his way with you, then in 9 months you may give birth to a Minicooper or a VW bug ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2017, 01:37:32 PM »
If a car salesman has his way with you, then in 9 months you may give birth to a Minicooper or a VW bug ;-)

I disagree.  Individually, people are not especially rational shoppers, but overall, they aren't bad at it.

And, BTW, when I buy a car, I go to the dealer with Consumer Reports fact sheets and pay no more than $300 over cost.  It takes some time, but I did it online last 2 times and some desperate salesperson always agrees at the end of the month.  On the other hand, I only buy one every 12 years or so. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2017, 01:58:54 PM »
And, BTW, when I buy a car, I go to the dealer with Consumer Reports fact sheets and pay no more than $300 over cost.
Just wondering how the Consumer Reports price compares to the NADA and Edmunds lowest selling prices data.  I've always been a fan of Consumer Reports, especially on their customer satisfaction and auto reliability and repair reports.  I could check it out myself, but last time I looked they wanted $10 for the information on a specific car.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2017, 02:01:52 PM »
Just wondering how the Consumer Reports price compares to the NADA and Edmunds lowest selling prices data.  I've always been a fan of Consumer Reports, especially on their customer satisfaction and auto reliability and repair reports.  I could check it out myself, but last time I looked they wanted $10 for the information on a specific car.

$10 for detailed info on the actual dealer cost and knowing all the possible gadget packages to save about $1,000?  Yeah a real rip-off...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 02:41:54 PM »
I don't think it's a rip off.  I'm just not going to pay them to compare their data to the sources I use.  Maybe when I'm in the market, but I'm not in the market right now.  Salesmen seldom accept my offer based on NADA data either, so I'm guessing the figures will be fairly similar.  But $10 to satisfy my curiosity when I'm not in the market?  Not going to do that.

By the way, salesmen are now pushing this site call True Car.  They actually want you to use it, well, at least after you walk out, and they call you afterwards.  Yeah, they really like I when the buyer has access to information.   Not surprising the data at True Car is usually higher than NADA, which a couple of salesmen insisted is no longer accurate.  But would you trust a site that names itself True Car?  Fair and Balanced?  Real? Alternate fact?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2017, 02:44:19 PM by SGOS »

Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 04:27:21 PM »
I don't think it's a rip off.  I'm just not going to pay them to compare their data to the sources I use.  Maybe when I'm in the market, but I'm not in the market right now.  Salesmen seldom accept my offer based on NADA data either, so I'm guessing the figures will be fairly similar.  But $10 to satisfy my curiosity when I'm not in the market?  Not going to do that.

By the way, salesmen are now pushing this site call True Car.  They actually want you to use it, well, at least after you walk out, and they call you afterwards.  Yeah, they really like I when the buyer has access to information.   Not surprising the data at True Car is usually higher than NADA, which a couple of salesmen insisted is no longer accurate.  But would you trust a site that names itself True Car?  Fair and Balanced?  Real? Alternate fact?

Well paying for data you aren't going to use never makes any sense.  It was rational to assume you actually planned to USE it! 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2017, 10:44:56 AM »
Well paying for data you aren't going to use never makes any sense.  It was rational to assume you actually planned to USE it! 
I've taken an interest in True Car, not because it's a good source of information, but because new car dealers are relatively quick to refer you to it when things aren't going their way, which of course is a big red flag.  This is the first ARTICLE I've found ABOUT True Car, rather than BY True Car, and it confirms my thoughts, and also confirms your "dealer cost plus $300" strategy.  The trick is to determine what the real dealer cost is and Consumer Reports claims to have it, something True Car did years ago, but no longer does because of dealer protest.  I'll definitely pony up the $10 CR fee the next time I'm serious about buying a car.

I've also wondered what "Dealer Invoice" means on the sticker.  While it implies it's the dealer cost, apparently it doesn't mean much of anything that's actually useful to the buyer.  I thought I would post this, because you seem interested in car buying.


Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2017, 04:33:09 AM »
I've taken an interest in True Car, not because it's a good source of information, but because new car dealers are relatively quick to refer you to it when things aren't going their way, which of course is a big red flag.  This is the first ARTICLE I've found ABOUT True Car, rather than BY True Car, and it confirms my thoughts, and also confirms your "dealer cost plus $300" strategy.  The trick is to determine what the real dealer cost is and Consumer Reports claims to have it, something True Car did years ago, but no longer does because of dealer protest.  I'll definitely pony up the $10 CR fee the next time I'm serious about buying a car.

I've also wondered what "Dealer Invoice" means on the sticker.  While it implies it's the dealer cost, apparently it doesn't mean much of anything that's actually useful to the buyer.  I thought I would post this, because you seem interested in car buying.

I'm not planning to buy a car right now.  My Toyota Highlander is only 12 years old AND has less than 30K miles.  I'm waiting for a decent hydrogen fuel model and a local source.  And what I DON'T want is all the automatic controls.  I'LL drive the car.

But the last 3 cars I bought were all with Consumers Reports data and the dealers HATED that.  It is the only way to go.  Some sites tell you the average price buyers paid for cars.  Who cares about that?  That's just the sucker price from the sticker down.

When I bought the Highlander in 2005, I did it all by email with the Consumers Report data in hand.  I offerred them $300 above their actual cost per CR.  They fussed, they argued that it didn't include operation or advertising costs.  They whined.

But eventually, as some sales incentive was running out, one salesman accepted my offer.  I lasted longer than they did.  And they offered me $1,000 for my low mileage 1996 Eagle Vision.  I declined and sold it for $2,500 privately.  The car dealers try every trick in the book.  The secret is to learn them.

Information is power.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2017, 07:01:53 AM »
When I bought the Highlander in 2005, I did it all by email with the Consumers Report data in hand.  I offerred them $300 above their actual cost per CR.
I checked CR out a couple of days ago after not using them for a few years.  They no longer provide the $14 car buying information.  In fact, after 75 years of consumer advocacy, they have sold out and switched sides.  I was shocked.  They are now partnered with TrueCAR and the dealerships.  It even says something like "Data provided by TrueCAR", in what they now call their "Build and Buy" program, which distributes your personal information (which they say they will not give out) to local dealerships, who start calling you to get you to come in and play games.

Apparently, CR has changed their focus as they have been losing readership to the internet, and they have changed thier business model in an attempt to remain solvent.  Their professional testing and comparisons no longer appeal to the younger generation who prefer the personal amateur reviews on places like Amazon over the advice of the "professionals," according to various articles and car forum discussions.

Get ready to be disappointed when you buy your next car.  It's Caveat Emptor.  I find it depressing when an organization like Consumer Reports is no longer there for the little guy, but playing golf with the CEOs.  NADA is moving in that direction too, and Edmunds is mostly just a referral business as of a year ago.  They still provide data, but the new standard for Dealers seems to be TrueCar.

You can still deal of course, and you will, but you won't have data you can trust at your disposal anymore.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2017, 09:29:10 AM »
I checked CR out a couple of days ago after not using them for a few years.  They no longer provide the $14 car buying information.  In fact, after 75 years of consumer advocacy, they have sold out and switched sides.  I was shocked.  They are now partnered with TrueCAR and the dealerships.  It even says something like "Data provided by TrueCAR", in what they now call their "Build and Buy" program, which distributes your personal information (which they say they will not give out) to local dealerships, who start calling you to get you to come in and play games.

Apparently, CR has changed their focus as they have been losing readership to the internet, and they have changed thier business model in an attempt to remain solvent.  Their professional testing and comparisons no longer appeal to the younger generation who prefer the personal amateur reviews on places like Amazon over the advice of the "professionals," according to various articles and car forum discussions.

Get ready to be disappointed when you buy your next car.  It's Caveat Emptor.  I find it depressing when an organization like Consumer Reports is no longer there for the little guy, but playing golf with the CEOs.  NADA is moving in that direction too, and Edmunds is mostly just a referral business as of a year ago.  They still provide data, but the new standard for Dealers seems to be TrueCar.

You can still deal of course, and you will, but you won't have data you can trust at your disposal anymore.

I am very sad to learn that.  And I will be aware of that.  Thank you.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Car Attack in St. Louis against LGBT Vigil
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 01:06:06 PM »
Thirty years ago, you could buy year old used cars from the car rental agencies.  The dealers put a stop to that too!
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