Author Topic: Why do so esteemed Islamic scholars &politicians call Jews brothers of monkeys  (Read 307 times)

As some of you may know the  deposed President of Egypt Morsi called Jews descendents of monkey and pigs on public TV. . Those who haven’t may verify that  looking it up on any search engine. The record shows a president duly elected into the office of the Egyptian presidency said on  national  TV , Jews are the descendant of monkeys and pigs. . That  was followed by an international uproar whereupon Morsi blamed0 the media  but did not retract his statements.   

In numerous circles  , in Muslim majority countries , in the media,  the academia  ,the  mosques ,sermons, you name it, you often  hear Muslims  calling Jews brothers of  monkeys and pigs .  On TV channels dedicated to Islamic Dawa ( call to Islam) long sermons are dedicated to the fineries of calling Jews monkeys and pigs with some teaching that Islam says they are descendants  of monkeys and pigs while others opposing those teachings vigorously arguing instead that Islam  calls Jews brothers and not descendents  of monkey and pigs .

Before I go any further let me first caution the reader that this post is going to be long. Sadly I have to jam everything in the OP because Barouch has  been disrupting  my posts with nonsensical remarks so that it became rather impossible to carry on a discussion.  I have to put everything in the OP  that the reader to get what I’m saying through .

I would also like to say I do not  do this because I love or hate Jews. I do it because  dehumanizing any people  is an affront to my  sensibilities  as a rational being and I feel the same way about  misguided whites such as Nazis calling  black people porch monkeys  and some misguided black people calling  white folks  snout noses . but in terms of Islam my feelings of repulsion and dejections are multiplied because the hate and dehumanization’s is rooted in the concept of deity , a deep and wide reaching  concept once instilled in the mind is extremely resilient and hard to  change or modify .you do that to a  child and you have doomed him to life of hatred , a life without reason, without choices ,  without freedom . and the shit builds up and evolves  . Jews are monkeys then so are blacks and  so are whites and so is this and that .  Hate systematically and actively and openly taught and instilled in the minds of Muslims from very early stage in life in the name of religion means the death of man as rational being . I’ll be surrounded by disrupters all around .   

of course it is not true that every single Muslims out there thinks and calls Jews monkeys and pigs. Humanity has not fallen to such  hellish level that all of 1.5 billion people say or believe that . Quite a few Muslims are not even knowledgeable about their own  religion , and when they do they run into the likes of people who lie and deceive them with the single purpose of making them even less knowledgeable than when they had started .

  I do not see any conflict with me doing this . this is an Islam forum. From what little I understood about Atheism I understood Atheism  is rooted in reason . you may argue this  in another post if you want .I’m satisfied it is .
this post will  establish sharia teaches that  hate message .for sharia check my post on sharia .

you  may also google Dr.Kamal AL Bahlawi and other celebrated Islamic scholars /clerics.The  internet is rife with accounts of Muslims clerics calling Jews monkey and pigs . 
 
Dr. Bahlawi who came in defense of Morsi hate inciting Statements arguing convincingly that it is his Aallh’s words and that Allah’s words  supersedes all  and are the  source and reason for calling Jews the brothers of monkeys and pigs  and  Allah’s  words about  Jews as monkeys and pigs is something  no  one can deny ,not Morsi , nor the Muslims brothers nor any Muslims who is sane  because any such denial  does  by necessity apostates the person and is one of the Nawaqid  of Islam . in effect a Muslims who denies that Jews are descendants or brothers of monkeys and pigs is a Kaffir and in turn an apostate and in turn subject to the hudood .  He is given three days to recant .if he doesn’t then he is executed. Favored method is quick beheading but innovations are allowed . Mohammed companion and right hand Abu Baker burned people. i think because the climate there is arid and hot they probably used dry branches and stems from thorn trees . so the person probably got pricked so many times on top. So we’re talking torture coupled with execution.

 But you can see now why deposed Egyptian president could not retract his statements  and went about apologizing about them  by deflection and playing the victim . renouncing his words would have been tantamount to apostasy. 

 I begin with the quran , with two verses from the Quran . first I will give an honest and accurate account of what Muslims clerics say the suras are saying . Then I will apply a brief textual analysis of the two suras.

 The first verse is from surat AL baqarah verse 65:

“ Ye know too of those among you who transgressed upon the Sabbath, and we said, ‘Become ye apes, despised and spurned.”

This is Allah talking . The verse tells us about  residents of a Jewish village who  violated  the sanctity of the Sabbath. Al Tabari  ( foremost exegete)  , explains that Jews defiled the Sabbath by fishing  and  Allah metamorphosed them into monkeys because of  it- al-Tabari  2: 61

The scholars of Islam disagreed as to the destiny of those jews  who were metamorphosed,  whether they lived or perished. They arrived at two different opinions:

1-   The first opinion states that the Jews lived and multiplied. It further states that the  current monkeys may have descended from them. Check   in al-Qurtubi 2: 171.
2-    The second opinion, which is supported by the bulk of Muslim scholars, states  that  metamorphosed beings do not breed . The group that metamorphosed   perished after three days.  Ibn ‘Abbas was a supporter of this opinion.   He states, “No metamorphosed being ever lived beyond three days, for it does not eat, drink, or beget.”   Check   in al-Qurtubi 2: 171.
3-   Al-Razi considers both opinions “reasonably possible,” but he leans towards Ibn ‘Abbas’ view that they perished after three days. al-Razi, Tafsir 3: 119-120

So if you go by the first opinion , a monkey in the zoo  might have descended from Jews . based on this you could say some Jews are the descendant of monkeys because  Jews lived and multiplied . Its monkey Jew. Also those Jews who were turned into monkeys might have had relatives who lived apart from them and did not partake in those things that aggrieved Allah to the point he turned them into monkeys .  those would be brothers of jew monkeys .

If you go by the second opinion then only those relatives of those Jews who were transformed who lived apart who were not transformed into monkeys you could claim are brothers of monkeys of monkeys even though those monkeys lived for only three days . one second of such a blood line can do ti to the person . like for example lets say a jew lived in Australia and  some of his family migrated to America. The Jew in Australia  violated the Sabbath , upset and angry Allah transforms him into a monkey . the jew in America who hasn’t violated the Sabbath was  not turned into a monkey .. even though his relative in Australia lived for only three days after being turned into a monkey he nonetheless became brother of monkey albeit a departed dear monkey sort of thing

I know it sounds funny but you need to know what the Islamic scholars are talking about and why they are talking what they are talking .

The third opinion  humors both camps
 
 Now for textual analysis of the verse in terms of sources of the verse  two quick comments :

1-   Jewish heretical legend spread among jews stated that  god turned Jews into monkeys as punishment ( check Ginzberg , Vol. one , page 49-50 and Sanhedrin 109a. Another Jewish legend tells of how after the completion of Babel  tower , Jews tried to climb it and  god turned them into monkeys as a result  (Ginzberg,  Vol.  one , page 70)  ( I thought monkeys were pretty good at climbing . I think they meant turned them into moneys in the sense of making them  too  dumb to climb)
2-   Other scholars maintain the source is the similarity between the word monkey and a parasite  that lives on cattle and birds and sucks their blood. Monkeys are called Qarada and the parasite is called Qarada. This is traced to the torah , Exodus  16 Verses 12-30. Basically god commanded Jews not to leave any of the mian to the next day and any that is left will spoil and worms ( Qardan) will infest it .

 it is to be noted when deposed Morsi called Jews and monkeys and pigs he preceded it by calling them blood suckers . which tallies with torah Qarada .

This is a subtle point . a Jew is confronted with a problem . if he lambasts Muslims for calling him the brother of monkeys , what about Jews who kept stories calling jews monkeys who were turned into monkeys by the Jewish god because they upset him ? Allah hasn’t  done anything that the Jewish god didn’t do if you go by those heretical stories . And the peculiar thing Barocuh has identified himself as heretic Jew. So it might make sense that Barouch is disrupting posts . it is because he is terrified of the prospect  of such revelations .

Mohammed or the authors of Quran did not event those stories . 80 % of the quran is traced to Jewish sources heretical or otherwise . as I continue the illusion that Christianity is a Jewish cult with gradually fade and wither away completely and be replaced by the actual truth which is that the quran is and was Jewish book and Islam is a Jewish cult

I have to tell from this point on I will decline to respond to anything that is nonessential

Next verses need elaborate treatment . lots of Jews monkey deal in the quran . lots  of Islamic and Jewish history  , poor barocuh he thought it was all about Islam history . called me a hater of Islamic history . I hope he doesn’t say I’m ‘hater of Jewish history now . now Barouch I’m going Jewish and Islamic. Anything for you Mr. Expert. .

Because they are bat-shit crazy and blind to critical thinking.  Believing in a fiction means they are basically clinically insane.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Sal1981

Why do you target specific posters on AF anyways?

Can't you dribble on and on without that?
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

1. Two Jews, three opinions ... and Jews hate and fight each other
2. Arabs taking everything literally instead of metaphorically
3. Arabs not understanding the purpose of story-telling, other than conquests of females and decapitation of male opponents, pre Muhammad
4. Arabs not being all that different, after Muhammad, other than having a powerful centralizing ideology of warfare that allows much greater ghazi

Think of the Kurgans coming out of S Russia 4,000 years ago, conquering all of Europe.  Think of Arabs coming out of Arabia 1,400 years ago, conquering all of the Iberia, N Africa, N East and Persia.  Same deal, except that the Arabs were literate and the Kurgans were not.  The Kurgans are the ancestors of the Russians and Pakistanis .. N and S of what is now Afghanistan, the great wall that divides empires.  The world of war and peace continue to divide.  It is tragic that Al Azhar, one of the first universities in the world, has such poor scholarship today.
שלום

@Mike , the question is  why did deposed president of Egypt Morsi, Engineering PhD Morsi, professor at USA college ,and one time NASA employ side with the minority of Islamic scholars?The majority of Muslims scholars are of the opinion Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs . Morsi said Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs .Morsi   statements on TV demonstrate unequivocally  that he is  of the opinion Jews are descendants of and not  brothers of monkeys and pigs.  Why?

Long involved sermons  on TV are dedicated to the debate over the exact nature of familial relationship  between  Jews and  monkeys and pigs. Take for example celebrated Muslim scholar and cleric Al Shiekh Mohammed Hasan with a massive following who  as matter of fact owns that TV channel , Ganat Al Rahma . He  argues pretty convincingly that Jews are brothers and not descendants of monkeys and pigs.  Al Shiekh Hazim Shoman in his sermons makes passing remarks to jews as descendants of monkeys and pigs . be that as it may , the official shari technical terms is brothers and not descendants

Look this is going to hold me back and the post is going to deteriorate and end up unresolved . only this time though .what I will do for you is throw you  a couple of  haddith and you take it up from there by yourself . Just apply a little bit of critical thinking.

This haddith is from Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain bearing on the status of Jews and  the Islamic claim  that jews are brothers of monkeys .  : (I’m quoting and translating from memory so there might be minor issues with the translation. Banu Qurayaz are the Jews  )

“The Prophet Mohammed had  laid siege upon them –ice  Banu Qurayza - and ordered his company to shield themselves as he approached to let Banu Qurayza hear his words and he called them,”  Ye brothers of monkeys and pigs.” The Jews replied : “ O Abu Qathem(Mohammed ) why be so profane ? “ And He ( Mohammed) laid siege upon them till they ended up with the judgment of  Sa’d Ibn Muadh who was companion of Mohammed .”   

Here to give you an idea of the judgment by Sa’d Ibn Muadh  on the Jews of Banu Qurazya by  Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279). The account of Sir William is not in dispute by any recognized scholars .

“The men and women were penned up for the night in separate yards.... [they] spent the night in prayer, repeating passages from their scriptures, and exhorting one another in constancy. During the night graves or trenches... were dug in the market-place. ... when these were ready in the morning, Mahomet, himself a spectator of the tragedy, gave command that the captives should be brought forth in companies of five and six at a time. Each company was made to sit down by the brink of the trench destined for its grave, and there beheaded. Party after party they were thus led out, and butchered in cold blood, till the whole were slain.... For Zoheir, an aged Jew, who had saved some of his allies of the Bani Aus... Sabit intervened and procured a pardon.... "But what hath become of all our chiefs-of Kab, of Huwey, of Ozzal, the son of Samuel?" asked the old man.... He received to each inquiry the same reply;-they had all been slain already - "Then of what use is life to me any longer? Leave me not to that bloodthirsty man who has killed that are dear to me in cold blood - But slay me also, I entreat thee. Here take my sword, it is sharp; strike high and hard." Sabit refused, and gave him over to another, who under Ali's orders beheaded the aged man.Having sated his revenge, and drenched the market-place with the blood of eight hundred victims, and having given command for the earth to be smoothed over their remains, Mahomet returned from the horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose husband and all whose male relatives had just perished in the massacre. He invited her to be his wife, but she declined, and chose to remain (as, indeed, having refused marriage, she had no alternative) his slave or concubine. She also declined the summons to conversion and continued in the Jewish faith. It is said, however, that she afterwards embraced Islam.
Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279).”

The next Haddith is from al Qurtubi in his exegesis of surat Al Maida verse 60. I will treat that verse later on actually its the next verse in line in terms of answering the OP title question.

“ when the Verse came -ice Maida verse 60- the Muslims said to the Jews of Banu Qurayza ,” Ye , brothers of monkeys and pigs and they ( the Jews) bowed their heads in shame and of them ( the Jews) the poet said : “ The curses of Allah be on the jews /the jews are the brothers of monkeys and pigs”

Now the thing is you have to be careful when referencing  the haddith, there is a tendency among Muslims to discard it or dismiss the haddith when it is perceived by them to undermine or embarrass  Islam  . However when by themselves they help themselves to it  and use it indiscriminately to support their views to each others. But when there are  non Muslims around they can and will down play the haddith .in an environment where Muslim enjoy hegemony they tend to affirm the haddith  . 
There are many questions that have to be considered if you apply your mind critically . Immigration rules in many countries grant higher priority residence allocation to a resident immigrant relatives who are descends such as off springs and parents more so than brothers and sisters.

Proponents of the opinion that jews are brothers of monkeys need to explain  why those Jews that Allah turned into monkeys and pigs do not eat and drink and breed and die in only three days ? The first verse I posted speaks only of turning them into monkeys . it does not say something was included in the bewitching  that made those monkeys perish in three days .was it physical ? psychological as in shock of finding oneself being a  monkey suddenly ?

All in all I have to reject your answer Mike . lack of critical thinking is not an answer. Morsi was a NASA engineer,you are not. As to insanity , it is insane to suggest the masses of Muslims who attained highest degrees of academic learning and credentials and serve in numerous highly skilled occupations are insane just because they believe that Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs. Sorry Mike, but you have to find another answer , a better answer.   

Questions abound setting the scene for an exciting discussion. I look forward to your input. Please try to stick to the subject matter . Remember this is not about me . I’m just  like you trying to make heads or  tails out of this most puzzling affair , current islamic affairs 

Offline Baruch

Yes, tribal warfare between Yathrib and Mecca, and within Yathrib (because Jewish Arabs betrayed their covenant with Muhammad) ... lovely, wasn't it?  The Seven Pillars of Wisdom.
שלום

@Mike , the question is  why did deposed president of Egypt Morsi, Engineering PhD Morsi, professor at USA college ,and one time NASA employ side with the minority of Islamic scholars?The majority of Muslims scholars are of the opinion Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs . Morsi said Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs .Morsi   statements on TV demonstrate unequivocally  that he is  of the opinion Jews are descendants of and not  brothers of monkeys and pigs.  Why?

Long involved sermons  on TV are dedicated to the debate over the exact nature of familial relationship  between  Jews and  monkeys and pigs. Take for example celebrated Muslim scholar and cleric Al Shiekh Mohammed Hasan with a massive following who  as matter of fact owns that TV channel , Ganat Al Rahma . He  argues pretty convincingly that Jews are brothers and not descendants of monkeys and pigs.  Al Shiekh Hazim Shoman in his sermons makes passing remarks to jews as descendants of monkeys and pigs . be that as it may , the official shari technical terms is brothers and not descendants

Look this is going to hold me back and the post is going to deteriorate and end up unresolved . only this time though .what I will do for you is throw you  a couple of  haddith and you take it up from there by yourself . Just apply a little bit of critical thinking.

This haddith is from Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain bearing on the status of Jews and  the Islamic claim  that jews are brothers of monkeys .  : (I’m quoting and translating from memory so there might be minor issues with the translation. Banu Qurayaz are the Jews  )

“The Prophet Mohammed had  laid siege upon them –ice  Banu Qurayza - and ordered his company to shield themselves as he approached to let Banu Qurayza hear his words and he called them,”  Ye brothers of monkeys and pigs.” The Jews replied : “ O Abu Qathem(Mohammed ) why be so profane ? “ And He ( Mohammed) laid siege upon them till they ended up with the judgment of  Sa’d Ibn Muadh who was companion of Mohammed .”   

Here to give you an idea of the judgment by Sa’d Ibn Muadh  on the Jews of Banu Qurazya by  Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279). The account of Sir William is not in dispute by any recognized scholars .

“The men and women were penned up for the night in separate yards.... [they] spent the night in prayer, repeating passages from their scriptures, and exhorting one another in constancy. During the night graves or trenches... were dug in the market-place. ... when these were ready in the morning, Mahomet, himself a spectator of the tragedy, gave command that the captives should be brought forth in companies of five and six at a time. Each company was made to sit down by the brink of the trench destined for its grave, and there beheaded. Party after party they were thus led out, and butchered in cold blood, till the whole were slain.... For Zoheir, an aged Jew, who had saved some of his allies of the Bani Aus... Sabit intervened and procured a pardon.... "But what hath become of all our chiefs-of Kab, of Huwey, of Ozzal, the son of Samuel?" asked the old man.... He received to each inquiry the same reply;-they had all been slain already - "Then of what use is life to me any longer? Leave me not to that bloodthirsty man who has killed that are dear to me in cold blood - But slay me also, I entreat thee. Here take my sword, it is sharp; strike high and hard." Sabit refused, and gave him over to another, who under Ali's orders beheaded the aged man.Having sated his revenge, and drenched the market-place with the blood of eight hundred victims, and having given command for the earth to be smoothed over their remains, Mahomet returned from the horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose husband and all whose male relatives had just perished in the massacre. He invited her to be his wife, but she declined, and chose to remain (as, indeed, having refused marriage, she had no alternative) his slave or concubine. She also declined the summons to conversion and continued in the Jewish faith. It is said, however, that she afterwards embraced Islam.
Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279).”

The next Haddith is from al Qurtubi in his exegesis of surat Al Maida verse 60. I will treat that verse later on actually its the next verse in line in terms of answering the OP title question.

“ when the Verse came -ice Maida verse 60- the Muslims said to the Jews of Banu Qurayza ,” Ye , brothers of monkeys and pigs and they ( the Jews) bowed their heads in shame and of them ( the Jews) the poet said : “ The curses of Allah be on the jews /the jews are the brothers of monkeys and pigs”

Now the thing is you have to be careful when referencing  the haddith, there is a tendency among Muslims to discard it or dismiss the haddith when it is perceived by them to undermine or embarrass  Islam  . However when by themselves they help themselves to it  and use it indiscriminately to support their views to each others. But when there are  non Muslims around they can and will down play the haddith .in an environment where Muslim enjoy hegemony they tend to affirm the haddith  . 
There are many questions that have to be considered if you apply your mind critically . Immigration rules in many countries grant higher priority residence allocation to a resident immigrant relatives who are descends such as off springs and parents more so than brothers and sisters.

Proponents of the opinion that jews are brothers of monkeys need to explain  why those Jews that Allah turned into monkeys and pigs do not eat and drink and breed and die in only three days ? The first verse I posted speaks only of turning them into monkeys . it does not say something was included in the bewitching  that made those monkeys perish in three days .was it physical ? psychological as in shock of finding oneself being a  monkey suddenly ?

All in all I have to reject your answer Mike . lack of critical thinking is not an answer. Morsi was a NASA engineer,you are not. As to insanity , it is insane to suggest the masses of Muslims who attained highest degrees of academic learning and credentials and serve in numerous highly skilled occupations are insane just because they believe that Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs. Sorry Mike, but you have to find another answer , a better answer.   

Questions abound setting the scene for an exciting discussion. I look forward to your input. Please try to stick to the subject matter . Remember this is not about me . I’m just  like you trying to make heads or  tails out of this most puzzling affair , current islamic affairs
Ibn.  I say again.............Islamic scholars are simply learning about the sacred writings of a fiction.  It is like studying  Moby Dick to learn the secrets of the universe--it's a fiction.  Allah is a fiction.  The quran is a book of fiction.  All theists are 'believers' and believe in fictions.  All Islamic scholars are basically trying to apply real life lessons based on a fiction--they are simply insane.  Discuss that!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online aitm

I'm not reading all that crap. Is this a thread where a guy says, "I'm not calling a Jew a pig or a monkey but...." and then goes on and does exactly that? Cause you guys tell me to pull the trigger and I will.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

@Mike , the question is  why did deposed president of Egypt Morsi, Engineering PhD Morsi, professor at USA college ,and one time NASA employ side with the minority of Islamic scholars?The majority of Muslims scholars are of the opinion Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs . Morsi said Jews are descendants of monkeys and pigs .Morsi   statements on TV demonstrate unequivocally  that he is  of the opinion Jews are descendants of and not  brothers of monkeys and pigs.  Why?

Long involved sermons  on TV are dedicated to the debate over the exact nature of familial relationship  between  Jews and  monkeys and pigs. Take for example celebrated Muslim scholar and cleric Al Shiekh Mohammed Hasan with a massive following who  as matter of fact owns that TV channel , Ganat Al Rahma . He  argues pretty convincingly that Jews are brothers and not descendants of monkeys and pigs.  Al Shiekh Hazim Shoman in his sermons makes passing remarks to jews as descendants of monkeys and pigs . be that as it may , the official shari technical terms is brothers and not descendants

Look this is going to hold me back and the post is going to deteriorate and end up unresolved . only this time though .what I will do for you is throw you  a couple of  haddith and you take it up from there by yourself . Just apply a little bit of critical thinking.

This haddith is from Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain bearing on the status of Jews and  the Islamic claim  that jews are brothers of monkeys .  : (I’m quoting and translating from memory so there might be minor issues with the translation. Banu Qurayaz are the Jews  )

“The Prophet Mohammed had  laid siege upon them –ice  Banu Qurayza - and ordered his company to shield themselves as he approached to let Banu Qurayza hear his words and he called them,”  Ye brothers of monkeys and pigs.” The Jews replied : “ O Abu Qathem(Mohammed ) why be so profane ? “ And He ( Mohammed) laid siege upon them till they ended up with the judgment of  Sa’d Ibn Muadh who was companion of Mohammed .”   

Here to give you an idea of the judgment by Sa’d Ibn Muadh  on the Jews of Banu Qurazya by  Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279). The account of Sir William is not in dispute by any recognized scholars .

“The men and women were penned up for the night in separate yards.... [they] spent the night in prayer, repeating passages from their scriptures, and exhorting one another in constancy. During the night graves or trenches... were dug in the market-place. ... when these were ready in the morning, Mahomet, himself a spectator of the tragedy, gave command that the captives should be brought forth in companies of five and six at a time. Each company was made to sit down by the brink of the trench destined for its grave, and there beheaded. Party after party they were thus led out, and butchered in cold blood, till the whole were slain.... For Zoheir, an aged Jew, who had saved some of his allies of the Bani Aus... Sabit intervened and procured a pardon.... "But what hath become of all our chiefs-of Kab, of Huwey, of Ozzal, the son of Samuel?" asked the old man.... He received to each inquiry the same reply;-they had all been slain already - "Then of what use is life to me any longer? Leave me not to that bloodthirsty man who has killed that are dear to me in cold blood - But slay me also, I entreat thee. Here take my sword, it is sharp; strike high and hard." Sabit refused, and gave him over to another, who under Ali's orders beheaded the aged man.Having sated his revenge, and drenched the market-place with the blood of eight hundred victims, and having given command for the earth to be smoothed over their remains, Mahomet returned from the horrid spectacle to solace himself with the charms of Rihana, whose husband and all whose male relatives had just perished in the massacre. He invited her to be his wife, but she declined, and chose to remain (as, indeed, having refused marriage, she had no alternative) his slave or concubine. She also declined the summons to conversion and continued in the Jewish faith. It is said, however, that she afterwards embraced Islam.
Muir, Sir William. The Life of Mahomet. vol. III (pp. 276-279).”

The next Haddith is from al Qurtubi in his exegesis of surat Al Maida verse 60. I will treat that verse later on actually its the next verse in line in terms of answering the OP title question.

“ when the Verse came -ice Maida verse 60- the Muslims said to the Jews of Banu Qurayza ,” Ye , brothers of monkeys and pigs and they ( the Jews) bowed their heads in shame and of them ( the Jews) the poet said : “ The curses of Allah be on the jews /the jews are the brothers of monkeys and pigs”

Now the thing is you have to be careful when referencing  the haddith, there is a tendency among Muslims to discard it or dismiss the haddith when it is perceived by them to undermine or embarrass  Islam  . However when by themselves they help themselves to it  and use it indiscriminately to support their views to each others. But when there are  non Muslims around they can and will down play the haddith .in an environment where Muslim enjoy hegemony they tend to affirm the haddith  . 
There are many questions that have to be considered if you apply your mind critically . Immigration rules in many countries grant higher priority residence allocation to a resident immigrant relatives who are descends such as off springs and parents more so than brothers and sisters.

Proponents of the opinion that jews are brothers of monkeys need to explain  why those Jews that Allah turned into monkeys and pigs do not eat and drink and breed and die in only three days ? The first verse I posted speaks only of turning them into monkeys . it does not say something was included in the bewitching  that made those monkeys perish in three days .was it physical ? psychological as in shock of finding oneself being a  monkey suddenly ?

All in all I have to reject your answer Mike . lack of critical thinking is not an answer. Morsi was a NASA engineer,you are not. As to insanity , it is insane to suggest the masses of Muslims who attained highest degrees of academic learning and credentials and serve in numerous highly skilled occupations are insane just because they believe that Jews are brothers of monkeys and pigs. Sorry Mike, but you have to find another answer , a better answer.   

Questions abound setting the scene for an exciting discussion. I look forward to your input. Please try to stick to the subject matter . Remember this is not about me . I’m just  like you trying to make heads or  tails out of this most puzzling affair , current islamic affairs 

.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Ibn, you pontificate like a Catholic, but slyly, not directly.  If you want to condemn Islam, just say it.  You aren't interested in actual dialog, just virtue signaling.
שלום

@Mike, I’m trying to discuss but it is not easy with you . it is difficult .Unbeliever cussed me out because of you. In a way he  could be  right . I should take it easy but we will never get done  . we’ll be stuck for ever  . its frustrating .
You’ve a problem . its not easy to fix. 

Morsi was  small time , small time professor, small time  NASA employees as all NASA employees are . Then Morsi catapults himself into the presidency of Egypt . In the short time he was in power 20 billion dollars disappeared from the country’s reserve. They found out  just when they were about to execute him. So they put that on hold  and he is going to stay in jail until he coughs back that dough , then they will  say he had heart attack. . Where the dough is at and what went down is shit we’re not supposed to talk about . you cross people with power they will destroy you.  They got goons everywhere  , anywhere .

I don’t see  insane . I see maybe a miscalculation by the Organization of Muslims Brothers, or you could say it just wasn’t in the cards. Allah didn’t wish for it to happen. The victorious  say Allah is not with the loser and the loser says it wasn’t in the cards .they will adapt and adjust and  try again. maybe better luck next time.

Maybe stupid  .  the first time the organization of Muslims  picked military junta Jamal Abd Al Naser and connived to put him in power . Naser once he was settled in turned on them and butchered around a hundred thousands of them .but Naser was their man that they picked .  This time they picked a civilian , Morsi, and put him in power and Al Sisis , their man too, in charge of the army. Al Sisis turned on them  and took them out .

Compare and contrast with Mohammed . when  he left Mecca all the guys who concocted  the Mecca quran for him   were dead . In Yathrib they put him in charge and he turned on them . He killed the jews who came up with his quran , who wrote it for him. He had to kill them all to cover his track and also make sure he doesn’t get issues with fussy  Arabs . you try any of that  shit the jews tried and you will end up like those jews  They killed the jews and then they turned around and said the Jews broke the agreement and  they had to be killed .and ever since they have  your usual simpletons going around saying that jews violated the agreement and that was why they got killed .
 .  .
In his death bed Mohammed enjoined his companion to kill all of the rest of the jews and not only them but all the Christians . in other words erase any incriminating record .  Later on Uthman the Caliph burned all the Jewish and Syriaic  manuscripts and they said it was to destroy faulty version of the quran . then they also burned libraries . but few records are left that can give some interesting insight on what took place. Also archeological diggings and there is of course , the secret Kalam.
 they say Naser was killed by Sadat and Sadat was killed by Hosni Mubarak  and they also say Mohammed was killed by Ayesha his wife and Umar al Khatab over transfer of power issues to do with Ali Ibn Abi Talib .

  Morsi and Sisis come from humble background ,deeply religious,  the difference Al Sisi climbed the ranks wheeling and dealing and double dealing and conniving and harvesting.  . Man got experience .Al Sisis is milatry junta . Morsi is sissy engineer, a loud mouth professor  . he talks shit like monkeys and pigs. Al Sisis smiles and talks in a low friendly voice  and slowly but in action he gives no quarters.  in one incident they went into a building and killed everything in it   . .

look wait the some odd 70 years before classified files  are released. Then you got your  secular haddith compliment US government .  wait 500 years and then history itself can be questioned and rightly so. But so what ?   history you do not question. You question the historicity but never the history  . we talking money and power

. You were made to believe that theists believe . That is not true. Religion doesn’t foster belief , it foster disbelief . Jesus Christ of the bible said it and you should listen because his take is  very wise .  . he said to ultra pious masses that they don’t have faith as much as mustard seed.He is right.  The same Jesus said the Atheist is a fool. Maybe you should think about that . maybe he is right. maybe you’re the one who believes and not the theists .you believe this is fiction and that is truth .  blinded  you only see Moby dick . You should reconsider lest one day you get surprised and turn around and say et tu Brutus?

Look Mohammed wants shit done. Mohmmed says Allah said to do it.We say praise be to Allah if it is going to line up our pockets . we say sacrilegious and take it to the battle field if it doesn’t.    we all know Allah and Mohammed is the same thing . we all know its just made up shit . everyone does. You just happen to  be one of those who thinks people believe its real.  And I don’t fault you for that . Pious people can put up some really convincing shit .they get carried away acting .

 I send the guys to clear a compound full of jihadist . usually you flatten the shit but rookies need to learn . so you soften the place and then  send them in to practice. Then I go in and I see a pile of jihadist . one had part of his brain exposed .  he was nicely pummeled with bullets below the waist. So I stop and take out my flask and take sip of local booze and I stoop down to take a closer look at his exposed brain .you see I got this scientific  bent  . but he opened his eyes and he was trying to say something . so I quickly poke his brain the pen . see what reaction that would cause. Nothing. Then he raised his hand half way pointing his index finger in the distance and he said to me ,” I’ve destroyed myself”. So I comfort him and I say to him , don’t feel bad, you going to paradise , 72 virgins , rejoice , be happy. .  . still he said it again. that didn’t work I poured a little booze in his open mouth. Didn’t do no good either. His chest start heaving and he was gurgling , choking in his own blood and  he died . Hey people just get so caught up in the act they become it .

Look at the Sheikh , guy owns his own TV channel . Man has mansion with pageant beauty damsel shit in every room. Shiekh says to his woman Allah says if she doesn’t give him some angels will curse her all nite. Woman shows no signs of faith. Sheikh promise woman fancy necklace  . woman says praise be to Allah . she becomes pious .

The problem now is critical thinking. Literacy is spreading among Muslims. they can read the texts by themselves . Too many are smart who can   understand Islam and learn how the game is played . Critical thinking merged with disbelief results in untenable competition.  . too many , Mohammeds.  .If the Imam tries to mollify the sermon they get upset and walk out . for an imam to make living he has to be true to Islam , to be  what they call in the west a radical.  Islam is radical.

I can’t make it simpler than that . But know this I used  multiple attestation in my posts. I did throw in the word “embarrass”. Those are like technical shit in terms of authenticity .

@Mike, I’m trying to discuss but it is not easy with you . it is difficult .Unbeliever cussed me out because of you. In a way he  could be  right . I should take it easy but we will never get done  . we’ll be stuck for ever  . its frustrating .
You’ve a problem . its not easy to fix. 

Morsi was  small time , small time professor, small time  NASA employees as all NASA employees are . Then Morsi catapults himself into the presidency of Egypt . In the short time he was in power 20 billion dollars disappeared from the country’s reserve. They found out  just when they were about to execute him. So they put that on hold  and he is going to stay in jail until he coughs back that dough , then they will  say he had heart attack. . Where the dough is at and what went down is shit we’re not supposed to talk about . you cross people with power they will destroy you.  They got goons everywhere  , anywhere .

I don’t see  insane . I see maybe a miscalculation by the Organization of Muslims Brothers, or you could say it just wasn’t in the cards. Allah didn’t wish for it to happen. The victorious  say Allah is not with the loser and the loser says it wasn’t in the cards .they will adapt and adjust and  try again. maybe better luck next time.

Maybe stupid  .  the first time the organization of Muslims  picked military junta Jamal Abd Al Naser and connived to put him in power . Naser once he was settled in turned on them and butchered around a hundred thousands of them .but Naser was their man that they picked .  This time they picked a civilian , Morsi, and put him in power and Al Sisis , their man too, in charge of the army. Al Sisis turned on them  and took them out .

Compare and contrast with Mohammed . when  he left Mecca all the guys who concocted  the Mecca quran for him   were dead . In Yathrib they put him in charge and he turned on them . He killed the jews who came up with his quran , who wrote it for him. He had to kill them all to cover his track and also make sure he doesn’t get issues with fussy  Arabs . you try any of that  shit the jews tried and you will end up like those jews  They killed the jews and then they turned around and said the Jews broke the agreement and  they had to be killed .and ever since they have  your usual simpletons going around saying that jews violated the agreement and that was why they got killed .
 .  .
In his death bed Mohammed enjoined his companion to kill all of the rest of the jews and not only them but all the Christians . in other words erase any incriminating record .  Later on Uthman the Caliph burned all the Jewish and Syriaic  manuscripts and they said it was to destroy faulty version of the quran . then they also burned libraries . but few records are left that can give some interesting insight on what took place. Also archeological diggings and there is of course , the secret Kalam.
 they say Naser was killed by Sadat and Sadat was killed by Hosni Mubarak  and they also say Mohammed was killed by Ayesha his wife and Umar al Khatab over transfer of power issues to do with Ali Ibn Abi Talib .

  Morsi and Sisis come from humble background ,deeply religious,  the difference Al Sisi climbed the ranks wheeling and dealing and double dealing and conniving and harvesting.  . Man got experience .Al Sisis is milatry junta . Morsi is sissy engineer, a loud mouth professor  . he talks shit like monkeys and pigs. Al Sisis smiles and talks in a low friendly voice  and slowly but in action he gives no quarters.  in one incident they went into a building and killed everything in it   . .

look wait the some odd 70 years before classified files  are released. Then you got your  secular haddith compliment US government .  wait 500 years and then history itself can be questioned and rightly so. But so what ?   history you do not question. You question the historicity but never the history  . we talking money and power

. You were made to believe that theists believe . That is not true. Religion doesn’t foster belief , it foster disbelief . Jesus Christ of the bible said it and you should listen because his take is  very wise .  . he said to ultra pious masses that they don’t have faith as much as mustard seed.He is right.  The same Jesus said the Atheist is a fool. Maybe you should think about that . maybe he is right. maybe you’re the one who believes and not the theists .you believe this is fiction and that is truth .  blinded  you only see Moby dick . You should reconsider lest one day you get surprised and turn around and say et tu Brutus?

Look Mohammed wants shit done. Mohmmed says Allah said to do it.We say praise be to Allah if it is going to line up our pockets . we say sacrilegious and take it to the battle field if it doesn’t.    we all know Allah and Mohammed is the same thing . we all know its just made up shit . everyone does. You just happen to  be one of those who thinks people believe its real.  And I don’t fault you for that . Pious people can put up some really convincing shit .they get carried away acting .

 I send the guys to clear a compound full of jihadist . usually you flatten the shit but rookies need to learn . so you soften the place and then  send them in to practice. Then I go in and I see a pile of jihadist . one had part of his brain exposed .  he was nicely pummeled with bullets below the waist. So I stop and take out my flask and take sip of local booze and I stoop down to take a closer look at his exposed brain .you see I got this scientific  bent  . but he opened his eyes and he was trying to say something . so I quickly poke his brain the pen . see what reaction that would cause. Nothing. Then he raised his hand half way pointing his index finger in the distance and he said to me ,” I’ve destroyed myself”. So I comfort him and I say to him , don’t feel bad, you going to paradise , 72 virgins , rejoice , be happy. .  . still he said it again. that didn’t work I poured a little booze in his open mouth. Didn’t do no good either. His chest start heaving and he was gurgling , choking in his own blood and  he died . Hey people just get so caught up in the act they become it .

Look at the Sheikh , guy owns his own TV channel . Man has mansion with pageant beauty damsel shit in every room. Shiekh says to his woman Allah says if she doesn’t give him some angels will curse her all nite. Woman shows no signs of faith. Sheikh promise woman fancy necklace  . woman says praise be to Allah . she becomes pious .

The problem now is critical thinking. Literacy is spreading among Muslims. they can read the texts by themselves . Too many are smart who can   understand Islam and learn how the game is played . Critical thinking merged with disbelief results in untenable competition.  . too many , Mohammeds.  .If the Imam tries to mollify the sermon they get upset and walk out . for an imam to make living he has to be true to Islam , to be  what they call in the west a radical.  Islam is radical.

I can’t make it simpler than that . But know this I used  multiple attestation in my posts. I did throw in the word “embarrass”. Those are like technical shit in terms of authenticity .

.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Munch

yeah i'm not reading all that either, is sounds more like they want to mock jews by claiming some mockery of evolution that jews are related to monkeys according to evolution telling us they are our distance ancestor race. But if they don't believe in evolution anyway then the mockery is moot.

Offline Deidre32

Maybe they're not that "esteemed" if they are bigots?

That's my best guess for today.
The only lasting beauty, is the beauty of the heart. - Rumi

Because Muslims like to recycle antisemitic tropes and canards every chance they get. It helps them cope with their defeat (their shame) by the Jewish state.

Shame is a profound concept in Arab and Islamic society. It is used to rationalize horrific actions like honor killings. The same 'logic' applies in this situation.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 04:49:41 PM by Sylar »
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde