FOX News Defends Trump's Defense of Nazis/White Supremacists/Bigotry

[Mike Cl]

Yet it seems like those who detest Christians or Jews hold them up to a very high standard of moral and ethical behavior. Everyone knows the golden rule and that Christians subscribe to that belief. Just about everyone is familiar with the Sermon on the MT, a very high call to ethical behavior. Two problems I observe with bible believers is they don't live up to the standard much better than anyone else, yet they often scold others for failing to live by a standard they often fail at.

I don't 'detest' christians or jews.  Nor any other theist--well, there may be some notable exceptions.  Anyway, I do detest the hierarchy of all organized religions.  That is where the thirst for power, wealth and fame come from.  One could pull any number of 'morals' from the bible or other sacred writings.  And one could pull any number of evil actions, as well.  I do agree that the religious can be very hypocritical--seems to go with the territory.  The Golden Rule--yeah, I try to use that as a major guide for living my life.  But it was not originated by the christian religion, only repeated by it.  Apparently it is about as close to being universal as any  rule of conduct.   

[Hydra009]

1. I see you provide no counter. but do you believe isil is not destroying historical artifacts that todays generations could learn from?

Yes.  That is exactly my position.  /sarcasm

otherwise there is no appeal to tradition when I think some things poses not just a historical importance but may present a lesson for todays generation.

You argued that the Ten Commandments should be kept at government courthouses because they've "already have been in a building for past several decades".  That's textbook argument from tradition.  I kinda feel sorry for you that you still don't get that.

Also, do you know that secularists don't actually intend on wiping away all historical record of the Ten Commandments but simply argue that they have no place on government property?  Probably not, because if you did you wouldn't equate that to ISIS demolishing historical sites.

[fencerider]

Shiranu went on a tirade; most of which I agree with, probably would have been on a different path if I made it...


The 10 Commandments have no place on a government or public school building. They should have never been there. The Christian community has this idea in their heads that freedom of religion means that you can choose any religion that you want as long as it is Christian. They think that their religious rights are being trampled on in recent times and can not comprehend that they were violating the Constitutional rule of separation of church and state all this time. They think that gays and lesbians are getting uppity and pushing an agenda and can not comprehend that the first ammendment right to freedom of religion protected the peoples' right to be gay or lesbian since the beginning of the U.S..

When you ask a Christian to understand that Americans have a right to choose to be a muslim or a Satanist, there is an intellectual leap that has to be made that not all people can make. I think that for some Christians that if the moments comes when they realize that there are religions that don't say anything about LGB and that every American has a right to choose one of those, their brains are gonna fry.


The confederate flag is the symbol of a known act of sedition in which many people died. Flying that flag is not protected by the first ammendment freedom of speech (and if any federal judge is stupid enough to say it is, that judge should be immediately impeached and disbarred for gross incompetence). I have to say that the first time I had to drive OTR into the south I was shocked at how many confederate flags were flying. Every single one of them needs to be confiscated. If you're that unpatriotic maybe you should move to South Africa.


Since it hasn't been mentioned; everyone is talking about the events of Sat and no one has said anything about Fri night; I will. Fri night it was only American Nazis walking on the streets with swaztikas and torches. They were very vocal with the anti-Jewish hate speech. If Mr Trump was acting like a president he should have denounced that event late Fri night, or early in the morning on Sat, long before the time of the incident on Sat. He isn't qualified to be a president. Today was the first time he said anything worth remembering Being president is a whole lot harder than I thought it would be

Those white trailer trash with the Nazi signs are lucky I'm not in the big chair. Such behavior is completely unacceptable in the U.S.. I would do everything in my power to have the citizenship in the U.S. of these American Nazis revoked.

[Baruch]

ACLU supports marchers with ugly opinions.  Even Nazis marching in Skokie years ago, marching past a synagogue.  You non-Jews don't have to "protect" Jews.  We know what you are all about.  All the rest are un-American, they only support Leftist speech.  Most Americans should loose their citizenship and be replaced by hard working Chinese and Mexican people?  Some Gentiles felt guilty that they didn't do more to stop anti-Semitism.  Being anti-Arab is also anti-Semitic.  Virtue signaling.

Do I support Nazis?  Do I support KKK?  What do you think?  But I don't think I will climb in my time machine and kill baby Hitler either.  Our time period is what it is.  Make it better by you being better.  You can't make it better by division, by demonizing an enemy, by getting violent.  Yes, ISIS is right from the heart of America.  They are copying us ... though not a better nature ... they copy the Nazis and KKK.

[Drew_2017]

I don't 'detest' christians or jews.  Nor any other theist--well, there may be some notable exceptions.  Anyway, I do detest the hierarchy of all organized religions.  That is where the thirst for power, wealth and fame come from.  One could pull any number of 'morals' from the bible or other sacred writings.  And one could pull any number of evil actions, as well.  I do agree that the religious can be very hypocritical--seems to go with the territory.  The Golden Rule--yeah, I try to use that as a major guide for living my life.  But it was not originated by the christian religion, only repeated by it.  Apparently it is about as close to being universal as any  rule of conduct.

However, its easy for people who have no known standard of behavior they subscribe to, to be free of the charge of being a hypocrite. Only they know if they are being hypocritical...

I think that word is used wrong. Suppose I was a down and out alcoholic yet I advised people to not go down the path I've gone. I'd probably be called a hypocrite. But who would know better how bad alcoholism is than one who's life was ruined by it? If I pretended I didn't drink and condemned those who did while in fact drinking then the shoe would fit.

[fencerider]

You non-Jews don't have to "protect" Jews.

naa  the Jews as a part of the story-line is just coincidence. If the American Nazis were waving their swastikas and saying "kill all the Mexicans", my reaction would be the same...

[Drew_2017]

Shiranu went on a tirade; most of which I agree with, probably would have been on a different path if I made it...

The 10 Commandments have no place on a government or public school building. They should have never been there. The Christian community has this idea in their heads that freedom of religion means that you can choose any religion that you want as long as it is Christian. They think that their religious rights are being trampled on in recent times and can not comprehend that they were violating the Constitutional rule of separation of church and state all this time. They think that gays and lesbians are getting uppity and pushing an agenda and can not comprehend that the first ammendment right to freedom of religion protected the peoples' right to be gay or lesbian since the beginning of the U.S..

My problem with tearing down any ethical or moral code is the secularists don't replace it with anything except a vacuum.

The first four are clearly religious so we can toss those out. Lets consider the others..

Honor your father and mother.

Is this a good ethic? If so how or where is it taught in secularism?

You shall not commit adultery.

I think most spouses would prefer this be the case. The ethic helps keep marriages in tact. Is that taught in secularism?

You shall not commit murder.

I'll assume most secularists abide by this ethic and have no qualms with it.

You shall not steal.

Most secularists would temper this by making exceptions of when it would be okay to steal or am I wrong?

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

I don't know anywhere else this is taught but I think it's pretty important.

You shall not covet.

I doubt too many secularists mind this one too much. I think it does increase harmony when people are happy for others good fortune.

The USA for example is clearly more secular the last 50 years. Is it any better? Is it more moral and decent? Are people more or less respectful than 50 years ago? I've asked this before so I don't expect a response. 

[Mike Cl]

My problem with tearing down any ethical or moral code is the secularists don't replace it with anything except a vacuum.

The first four are clearly religious so we can toss those out. Lets consider the others..

Honor your father and mother.

Is this a good ethic? If so how or where is it taught in secularism?

You shall not commit adultery.

I think most spouses would prefer this be the case. The ethic helps keep marriages in tact. Is that taught in secularism?

You shall not commit murder.

I'll assume most secularists abide by this ethic and have no qualms with it.

You shall not steal.

Most secularists would temper this by making exceptions of when it would be okay to steal or am I wrong?

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

I don't know anywhere else this is taught but I think it's pretty important.

You shall not covet.

I doubt too many secularists mind this one too much. I think it does increase harmony when people are happy for others good fortune.

The USA for example is clearly more secular the last 50 years. Is it any better? Is it more moral and decent? Are people more or less respectful than 50 years ago? I've asked this before so I don't expect a response.

Actually, Drew, these are the 10 Commandments:

The Ten Commandments

1.  For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

2.  Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

3.  The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep.

4.  All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

5.  Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

6.  And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

7.  Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

8.  Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the feast of the Passover be left until the morning.

9.  The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.

10.  Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.



After giving these commandments, God said...

Exodus 34
27  And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.
28  And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

Which of these do you like?  And why should they be on public property?

[Drew_2017]

Actually, Drew, these are the 10 Commandments:

The Ten Commandments

1.  For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

You missed the point of my post, I wasn't arguing in favor of keeping the ten commandments posted in public, I was asking what great moral principals and ethics should they be replaced with. Or do you think children should be raised in a complete moral and ethical vacuum? That is my issue with secularism, it wishes to take down all ethical principals and replace them with nothing. My list is a secular list of ethics...

Honor your father and mother.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not commit murder.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Which one of these do you find offensive? To some degree or another those all come under the banner of the golden rule. Is the golden rule taught of in secularism that you know of?

[Mike Cl]

You missed the point of my post, I wasn't arguing in favor of keeping the ten commandments posted in public, I was asking what great moral principals and ethics should they be replaced with. Or do you think children should be raised in a complete moral and ethical vacuum? That is my issue with secularism, it wishes to take down all ethical principals and replace them with nothing. My list is a secular list of ethics...

Honor your father and mother.
You shall not commit adultery.
You shall not commit murder.
You shall not steal.
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
You shall not covet.

Which one of these do you find offensive? To some degree or another those all come under the banner of the golden rule. Is the golden rule taught of in secularism that you know of?

No, I got your point.  What's wrong with moral things being posted in public.  What is 'moral'?  Who gets to decide?  I would suggest the US has settled on what is legally moral--our law code based on English Common Law and precedent.  No religion should be featured--that makes freedom of religion a lie if you feature one.

And you missed my point.  What you think of as the 10 Commandments is listed three places.  The last one is the set I listed.  Your religion can't even figure out what really is moral or what the 10 Commandments are or where they are all listed.  That mess has no place repeated on public buildings or on public land.  It is a simple rule, really.  Practice any religion you want--just keep it off public buildings or land.  Simple.

[Hydra009]

Or do you think children should be raised in a complete moral and ethical vacuum?? That is my issue with secularism, it wishes to take down all ethical principals and replace them with nothing.

Taking down a religious monument on public property = raising children in "a complete moral and ethical vacuum" ?

[Baruch]

Every American violates all of the (one of several version of) the Ten Commandments.  Even Jewish Americans.  I have yet to see the ground open up and swallow us.

[randomvim]

How does that not make methodists or baptists or any other sect of christanity  a cult?

I do not believe methodists or baptists qualify under provided definition. perhaps at one time their size was not the same, but to consider what another post points out -which anyone can see based on documentation- bapwhats are not organized at the direct action against another group.

They did not develop or fracture with the goal of destroying or targeting a paticular community. Where as the satanists are. that is their goal. Or people who join do so as a farce and, like the athiest spaggetti group, possess no actual religious direction.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

[Blackleaf]

1. "doesnt matter." refraining from fallacy doesnt matter to you but you try to say I have an issue with logic? har har har.

You have had zero experience with anyone like me. Your response suggests it. so move on.

Oh yeah? Tell me, is global warming real or just a hoax? I'm ready to hear what your open mind has to say about this issue.

2. define?
small group or groups that have misplaced or excessive admiration for (in comparison to populace) with questionable intent or practice.

Sounds like religion to me. Seems a "cult" to you is just any religious group you don't like.

[Blackleaf]

Displaying Confederate flag on front lawn is also fine. That's private property. I do not care what someone chooses to display on their private property.

Displaying Confederate flag on public property? That's where the problem lies.

Good point. I would certainly question the motives of the person who chooses to display symbols of the Confederacy on their private property, but they do have the right to do so (as we have the right to ridicule them). But those same symbols on public property should be donated, sold, or destroyed.