Author Topic: Freedom of speech, anyone?  (Read 572 times)

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #30 on: August 17, 2017, 04:14:29 AM »
I do respect your opinion, Cave, so let me reword it...

I support these people having a voice at universities... but I don't agree that universities have a necessity to protect it, nor do I think it is benefical to protect it. It is completely up to the university, and most of them go much further at protecting hate speech than I feel they need to.

But in the current environment... it's just not appropriate. It would be like having the National Guard speak about how great they were the day after Kent State... there is a time and place for everything, and that and this simply is not it.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #31 on: August 17, 2017, 04:19:14 AM »
Quote
I do not defend nazis.

No, you just rather deflect any time they are attacked. Completely different.

Quote
These speakers are not nazis.

Never said they were.

Quote
You call them that because they are contrary to your indoctrinated ideology.

I have specifically said they aren't Nazis at least two times now in this thread, mate.

Quote
And you are following the opinion of others.

Right, I am following the opinion of others. Let's see... I am following the opinion that someone who defends Nazi rhetoric to the point her own right-wing news organization is distancing themselves from her or quitting in protest is a shitty human being. I am following the opinion that someone who is bigoted towards the LGBT+ community and opposes bills that protect the community is a shitty human being. I am following the opinion that someone who agrees with White Supremacists and gives them a voice on his youtube channel, amongst several other bigot groups, is a shitty human being.

Wow. You sure got me there.

Quote
Without examination, you are becoming judge, jury and executioner.

Oh, the fucking irony is going to give me a stroke.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #32 on: August 17, 2017, 04:27:00 AM »
I do not defend nazis.
These speakers are not nazis.

You call them that because they are contrary to your indoctrinated ideology.
And you are following the opinion of others.

 Without examination, you are becoming judge, jury and executioner.
How soon before I will be declared a nazi?

Ah...  No those people saying they are Nazis ARE Nazis...  You aren't going to get around that one...I won't let you and I doubt others will. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #33 on: August 17, 2017, 04:39:12 AM »
The thread is about the speakers of the university in question.

Gad Saad, Faith Goldi, Jordan Peterson.
I do not think they have declared themselves nazis.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:40:44 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #34 on: August 17, 2017, 04:47:26 AM »
The thread is about the speakers of the university in question.

Gad Saad, Faith Goldi, Jordan Peterson.
I do not think they have declared themselves nazis.

The problem is the same.  College students should hear many people speak.  Intelligent speakers and idiots.  How else will the learn to tell the difference ?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2017, 04:50:44 AM »
The left doesn’t want to debate, they simply silence them.
The easy way out.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:52:52 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2017, 04:51:04 AM »
The more I think about it, I will actually change my opinion on Faith. I didn't call her a Nazi at first, even though she sympathized with the neo-Nazis and white supremacists, and agreed with many of their points, because she didn't call herself a neo-Nazi. But let's think about this for a second, with something like being a racist being similarly condemned in public as neo-Nazism is...

"I hate black people, I think they are sub-human trash who are lazy and smoke dope all day and rape our white women! And them Asians, with their eyes and what not... and don't get me started on them wet backs! Anyways though, I'm not a racist. I don't think we should kill all the blacks or anything, maybe just put them back in slavery..." - (Actually someone in my family)

Would we be sitting here arguing over if he is a racist or not, because he said he isn't racist? No. And neo-Nazism is the same... it isn't something you have to identify as to be one, no more than you have to identify as liberal, conservative, whatever to be one. As someone said earlier, "...if it quacks like a Nazi...." or something to that effect. She agreed with the policy parts of their ideology, just not with the parts that are too socially stigmatized for her to support. That is a neo-Nazi.

So I stand corrected; I do think the university invited an ashamed neo-Nazi to give a paid speech at their campus.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #37 on: August 17, 2017, 05:12:09 AM »
I think the word “liberal” is misused. Those who call themselves liberal are anything but.

They are authoratarians, my way or else, you fascist scum.
Are antifa, blm, bamn liberals? Hell no.

‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #38 on: August 17, 2017, 05:31:41 AM »
The left doesn’t want to debate, they simply silence them.
The easy way out.

A typical argument of neo-nazis.  The left debates all the time.  It is nearly a hobby.  The best analogy I can offer here is that the extreme Right is like creationists here on the atheist forum.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #39 on: August 17, 2017, 05:35:35 AM »
Really? Then why are universities against free speech?
No dissent are allowed.
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2017, 05:38:55 AM »
Really? Then why are universities against free speech?
No dissent are allowed.

They shouldn't be and I disagree with the current bad habit!  That was sort of my premise, in case you hadn't noticed...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #41 on: August 17, 2017, 05:43:48 AM »
Yes I did notice it.
Must admit, I was a bit surprised.


‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #42 on: August 17, 2017, 05:49:04 AM »
Quote
Really? Then why are universities against free speech?

>Literally in a thread about universities giving them free speech that was only cancelled because the people they support couldn't behave themselves like adults, or even basic human beings, and left 1 person dead and many others severely injured.
>Literally blaming the university for the actions of neo-fucking-Nazis.
>Literally in a thread where multiple people have posted what exactly free speech actually means.

I literally cant even.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #43 on: August 17, 2017, 05:56:16 AM »
>Literally in a thread about universities giving them free speech that was only cancelled because the people they support couldn't behave themselves like adults, or even basic human beings, and left 1 person dead and many others severely injured.
>Literally blaming the university for the actions of neo-fucking-Nazis.
>Literally in a thread where multiple people have posted what exactly free speech actually means.

I literally cant even.

I think there can be situations where students don't want to hear some things.  At ceremonies for sports events, the purpose isn't to listen to political speeches, and at graduation, the purpose of a speech should be to encourage graduates to go forth and do their best.  Other than that, let them rip...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Munch

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2017, 06:29:58 AM »
Universities should only ever be about education and nothing else, it should never be about pushing a political doctrine regardless of whatever the students political leaning is. Seems certain tutors don't prescribe to that however and want to drill their personal bias onto developing minds.