Author Topic: Freedom of speech, anyone?  (Read 833 times)

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2017, 03:11:26 AM »
Ah, to be an ideologue.

I am sure you have passed with honors. A PhD in cultural Marxism.

What did you actually study?  What did you get for all that money still to be paid back?
I think Google is hiring sharp minds like yours.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:25:26 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2017, 03:27:16 AM »
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Ah, to be an ideologue.

I don't think opposing Nazism makes you an ideologue, I think that makes you literally an human being who is not a Nazi or a white supremacist.

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I am sure you have passed with honors. A PhD in cultural Marxism.

Not quite.

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What did you actually study?

I am about to receive a major in Anthropology, primarily the field of Archaeology focused on the Native American Woodland Period (Adena and Hopewell cultures) and then the Mississippian Moundbuilders (Caddo, Cahokia). Also a little bit of Pueblo studies (having lived in New Mexico) and then studied a fair bit of Lacadon Mayan from Southern Mexico.

For my minor I will have a double in English (mostly focused on British novelists) and history (with a focus on India). 

Basically as an Anthropology major... I studied everything, because it is one of the few holistic majors you can receive due to the fact you have to have an understanding of all the different factors that go into a society. Sociology is obviously hugely important, but you also have to understand history and economics, political science, several branches of science (particularly Biology of both humans and pre-humans for archeology), art history and interpretation... basically everything that makes a culture a culture, you have to have some training in.

All of that is irrelevant though, because it doesn't take a college grad to realise, "Nazis are bad, mmkay?".
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2017, 03:34:09 AM »
British novelist. I recommend George Orwell.

So did you get a good job with all that qualification?

But to stick to the thread, none of those speakers are Nazis.
You saying it doesn’t make it true. Unless you can prove it.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:38:57 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2017, 03:36:39 AM »

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I think Google is hiring sharp minds like yours.

Not really interested. I have no desire to live in San Fran or any other major city, I would rather quite like to move outside Lisboa, Coimbra or La Coruna (alternatively, somewhere in the Scottish Highlands, Jalisco, Mexico or in a smaller Swedish/Norwegian city), and spend the rest of my days tending a small farm, working a simple job, maybe doing archaeological work when I have the chance, produce art and raise a small family to make sure my family name doesn't go extinct.

I have no desire to be involved in all of this bullshit, but life doesn't always give you what you desire. The writing has been on the wall for years that this was coming, and running from Nazism, fascism, white supremacy and it's defenders is simply not an option. Even if we take any moral objection to these positions and actions I have away, if I simply stay silent and just try to mind my business and let them do whatever they want... they will eventually make it my business and I will be powerless against it.

So if nothing else, I am so vocal against this position not just for moral reasons but for simple self preservation and preservation of the type of life I want to have.
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2017, 03:42:02 AM »
I am getting ridiculed for having Muslims under my bed.
You have Nazist.
Welcome to the club.
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2017, 03:45:46 AM »
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British novelist. I recommend George Orwell.

He's quite good (to understate it heavily). Focused more on the Romantics and writers like Dickens though... they were who I could relate to the most, living in a world rapidly changing from agrarian to industrial (I grew up on a farm for the first 15 years of my life, have always lived in rural areas, and am living in an era of extreme technological shifting) and a society trying to cope with these changes, dealing with a society that values wealth and extravagance and modern when you desire simplicity and natural, and so on.

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So did you get a good job with all that qualification?

Haven't looked for one, making money was never the reason I went to college but rather to learn. I regret that now since so much of it I could have taught myself without driving myself into debt, but my family pressured me to be the first college graduate in the family. I have done some field work in New Mexico though, which isn't high paying (or really, paying at all...) but was extremely satisfying and important work, which is what I deem more important.

Out of curiosity, since you want to keep changing the subject to me, let's talk about you...

Sharing much of the same rhetoric as these neo-Nazis and citing the same sources, grievances and having the same modern heroes they do, what is your opinion on the neo-Nazi and alt-right movement they belong to as a whole?
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Online Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2017, 03:50:47 AM »
The very place where free speech should be experienced, however moronic or hateful, is college.  It i where young adults, learning to think, should be exposed to anything their peers think.  It is where you should hear the best AND the dumbest ideas.

It is NOT a place where you should be PROTECTED from things you disagree with, offensive views or otherwise.  That's why you are there, to experience and learn!

The Fucking PURPOSE of college is to expose you to all possible thoughts so can have heard them and decided they made sense or not!

Oh, and get a degree in something...  But that's a technical detail.  You go to college to debate, discuss, challenge.  You can get a degree in anything.  But you don't get a chance to disagree rationally anywhere else as much as at college.

If you go to college and don't learn how to argue about stuff, you sure won't learn anywhere else.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2017, 03:54:57 AM »
I am getting ridiculed for having Muslims under my bed.
You have Nazist.
Welcome to the club.



Holy fuck. How does it feel finally reaching rock bottom?
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2017, 03:57:26 AM »
Quote
The very place where free speech should be experienced, however moronic or hateful, is college.  It i where young adults, learning to think, should be exposed to anything their peers think.  It is where you should hear the best AND the dumbest ideas.

Jeez, and they call me the idealist...


Hate speech is not protected by the state, and it's within any businesses right to shut that shit down as quickly as they please.

I'm sorry, but why exactly should hate speech be protected? You don't have to have someone yelling, "FUCK BLACK PEOPLE!" to know that the idea that thinking black people should fuck themselves is wrong. You don't have to have someone tell you, "Yeah, I think Hitler wasn't as bad as people say..." to know that HITLER WAS COMPLETELY AS BAD AS PEOPLE SAY!


This was a podium for them to spread borderline hate speech, and to get paid for doing it. That isn't allowing both sides to present their argument, that is allowing hate speech to spread and to make money off of it.

« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:01:23 AM by Shiranu »
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2017, 03:57:44 AM »
Unacceptable.

Nazis?
Well the WWII nazis have eliminated my parents, spending my first few years in an orphanage.

Then educated under a communist regime, Uncle Joe (Stalin) was our God.











“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2017, 04:00:35 AM »
Jeez, and they call me the idealist...
Not idealist, no. Ideologue. There is a difference.
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2017, 04:02:26 AM »
Unacceptable.

Nazis?
Well the WWII nazis have eliminated my parents, spending my first few years in an orphanage.

Then educated under a communist regime, Uncle Joe (Stalin) was our God.













Then if you find them unacceptable, why do you defend their rhetoric and their positions? I'll admit, you have never heiled Hitler (which is kinda a big deal for them), but in terms of the xenophobia and the anti-leftist/anti-foreigner rhetoric... you literally have said the exact same things they do, and quote the exact same voices as them.

How does it feel to be the Moderate Muslim who is more than just silently encouraging and agreeing with the radicals, except with Nazism? Sure, sure, you might not support Shariah... but you are down for like, maybe, 80% of it being enforced?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:06:42 AM by Shiranu »
“Life isn't long enough to enjoy and understand all at the same time. You have to decide which is more important." - Pedro Juan Gutierrez

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Online Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2017, 04:04:55 AM »
Jeez, and they call me the idealist...


Hate speech is not protected by the state, and it's within any businesses right to shut that shit down as quickly as they please.

I'm sorry, but why exactly should hate speech be protected? You don't have to have someone yelling, "FUCK BLACK PEOPLE!" to know that the idea that thinking black people should fuck themselves is wrong. You don't have to have someone tell you, "Yeah, I think Hitler wasn't as bad as people say..." to know that HITLER WAS COMPLETELY AS BAD AS PEOPLE SAY!


This was a podium for them to spread borderline hate speech, and to get paid for doing it. That isn't allowing both sides to present their argument, that is allowing hate speech to spread and to make money off of it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online Cavebear

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2017, 04:08:17 AM »
Unacceptable.

Nazis?
Well the WWII nazis have eliminated my parents, spending my first few years in an orphanage.

Then educated under a communist regime, Uncle Joe (Stalin) was our God.

I'm sorry you had a hard life.  But you mostly make no sense...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2017, 04:13:34 AM »
Then if you find them unacceptable, why do you defend their rhetoric and their positions? I'll admit, you have never heiled Hitler (which is kinda a big deal for them), but in terms of the xenophobia and the anti-leftist/anti-foreigner rhetoric... you literally have said the exact same things they do, and quote the exact same voices as them.

How does it feel to be the Moderate Muslim who is more than just silently encouraging and agreeing with the radicals, except with Nazism? Sure, sure, you might not support Shariah... but you are down for like, maybe, 80% of it being enforced?

I do not defend nazis.
These speakers are not nazis.

You call them that because they are contrary to your indoctrinated ideology.
And you are following the opinion of others.

 Without examination, you are becoming judge, jury and executioner.
How soon before I will be declared a nazi?






« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:17:35 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper