Author Topic: Freedom of speech, anyone?  (Read 550 times)

Offline pr126 (OP)

Freedom of speech, anyone?
« on: August 17, 2017, 12:11:06 AM »
College Responds To Hosting Panel On Free Speech By Canceling It
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Ryerson University canceled a panel Wednesday dedicated to discussing the silencing of free speech on college campuses, citing “campus safety.”

The Canadian school canceled “The Stifling of Free Speech on University Campuses,” an Aug. 22 panel featuring three doctors and a pro-free speech journalist, citing a prioritization of “campus safety” over free speech “in light of recent events,” according to correspondence obtained by The Daily Caller News Foundation.

Social justice activists set up a Facebook page entitled “No Fascists in Our City!” to protest the event. The page’s header image depicted a swastika crossed out.

“Fascists are planning to meet on August 22nd at Ryerson University to discuss how to avoid what they call ‘SJW’ Culture,” the protest description reads. “Tickets are being sold for $20 and frankly it makes us virulently ill … Considering the rise of Nationalism here and abroad we need to show these people and their guests that we will not tolerate their backward nonsense in our city.”
Quite right too. We do not want different ideas. They are dangerous.


« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:00:18 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Freedom of speach, anyone?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2017, 12:11:53 AM »
Freedom to spell speech correctly?

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Offline Sorginak

Re: Freedom of speach, anyone?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2017, 12:15:33 AM »
First and foremost, free speech is not infringed upon if an organization does not wish to have a particular speaker do his thing.

That speaker has many mediums from which to choose in order to spread that message he wishes others to hear.

Secondly, and most importantly, I can imagine people in the past thinking, "Hitler has the right to speak as he is doing."

Offline Baruch

Re: Freedom of speach, anyone?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2017, 01:22:50 AM »
First and foremost, free speech is not infringed upon if an organization does not wish to have a particular speaker do his thing.

That speaker has many mediums from which to choose in order to spread that message he wishes others to hear.

Secondly, and most importantly, I can imagine people in the past thinking, "Hitler has the right to speak as he is doing."

Hitler, if he were in the US, would have the right to speak the way he did (even the ACLU would defend that).  But not many would have understood ranting German ;-)

So, let the universities devolve into in-fighting, as to who can or can't speak at their school.  Once they burn down, we can send the toddlers home.  Or better yet, to Vietnam.

Or do you mean ... the Dean and Faculty etc should be the slaves of the students.  Or if there is more than one faction of students, the "special faction" should rule like a Venezuelan dictator?
שלום

Offline Sorginak

Re: Freedom of speach, anyone?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2017, 01:24:30 AM »
Hitler, if he were in the US, would have to speak the way he did.  But not many would have understood ranting German ;-)

So, let the universities devolve into fighting within, as to who can or can't speak at their school.  Once they burn down, we can send the toddlers home.

Or do you mean ... the Dean and Faculty etc should be the slaves of the students.  Or if there is more than one faction of students, the "special faction" should rule like a Venezuelan dictator?

The students do pay the bills, so to speak.  ;)

Upset the students, and they will take their money elsewhere.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:27:39 AM by Sorginak »

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2017, 01:46:39 AM »


I can't remember where I heard this, but someone once said that defending a position by citing free speech is sort of the ultimate concession; you're basically saying that the most compelling thing you can say for your position is that it's not literally illegal to express.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:48:57 AM by Sylar »
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2017, 01:47:36 AM »
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The students do pay the bills, so to speak.  ;)
Or rather, their parents. No student has that kind of money.
Parents who don't know or care how their youngsters are being "educated".
 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 01:49:49 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Sorginak

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2017, 01:51:14 AM »
Or rather, their parents. No student has that kind of money.
Parents who don't know or care how their youngsters are being "educated".

Hate speech is hardly education, dear.

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2017, 02:00:21 AM »
Parents who don't know or care how their youngsters are being "educated".

Vast majority of students do not participate in any kind of political activity in school.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2017, 02:05:01 AM »
By the way, that comic is from this website: https://xkcd.com/1357/.

I enjoy this site very much -- the author is a scientist who publishes comics and "serious scientific answers to absurd hypothetical questions". You might like it.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Online Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2017, 02:09:24 AM »
Or rather, their parents. No student has that kind of money.
Parents who don't know or care how their youngsters are being "educated".
 

Haha. Yeah, no. I have paid everything out of pocket (mind you, in America and not Canada, which means I am paying significantly more) by working at times two jobs (including jobs like roofing and field work) and by driving myself into over $35,000 worth of debt. Everyone I work with is in the same situation + paying for rent, their car, their phone, etc. etc. while going even further into debt than me. Don't get me wrong, there are rich white kids who mommy and daddy pay for their schooling while they get to drive their Mercedes from frat house to frat house... but that is not even remotely the norm.


There does exist a world outside of upper class white America/Canada, believe it or not, and we go to university as well.

Funny how the article you posted left out some relevant content... who exactly the speakers are and what exactly they advocate...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40956141

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Faith Goldy is a journalist and political commentator with Canada's right-wing digital news site Rebel Media. In June, Goldy broadcast a YouTube video arguing that immigration policies were contributing to a "white genocide" in Canada.

While covering Charlottesville over the weekend for Rebel Media, she appeared to sympathize with many of the ideas espoused by the protesters.

Since then, the Rebel's founder Ezra Levant has publically denounced the so-called "alt-right," and a number of freelance journalists with the Rebel have announced they will no longer work for the organization.

University of Toronto psychology professor Jordan Peterson has made a name for himself campaigning against Canada's new transgender rights laws.

Gad Saad is a business professor who writes about how sex differences affect the consumer and argues against political correctness.

Funny, when you tell the truth about who they are... someone who at the very least defends white supremacy and Nazis when she isn't actively agreeing with them to the point she is causing a right-wing rag to distance themselves from her position and having coworkers quit over it, someone who is bigoted towards the LGBT community, and a sexist who is making bank off of using rhetoric that has fired up these fascists and supremacists, it suddenly seems less like "free speech being silenced", and more like what literally any rational business would do.

The First Amendment doesn't apply in Canada, but the point above still stands... free speech is protected from government infringement, but private businesses are allowed to dictate what is said on their grounds. If they disagree with your rhetoric because they feel what you have to say does not paint a pretty picture for their business, they have every right to tell you to shut up and go home. That isn't some new "SJW" rule, that is how it has always been.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:12:33 AM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2017, 02:14:21 AM »
Attending these “hate speeches" are not mandatory, especially at $20 for a ticket.
Those students who do not want to pollute their pristine minds with “hate speech” do not need to attend.

BTW, the speaker is a Jew from Lebanon   (Gad Saad) escaped from Muslim persecution, a professor at a university.
Not quite a Nazi fascist at all. Your opinion may differ.





« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:28:00 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Online Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2017, 02:36:25 AM »
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Attending these “hate”. Speeches are not mandatory, especially at $20 for a ticket.

Doesn't matter. It is a privilege, not a right, to speak at a university and as a company they have every right to revoke that privilege if they feel the content of your product does not conform to the vision and direction they wish to take.

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Those students who do not want to pollute their pristine minds with “hate speech” do not need to attend.

It's not about the students (for the university), it's about maintaining their reputation as a company and insuring that their financial interests are secure. Inviting a Nazi and white supremacist sympathizer and agreer, an anti-LGBT bigot and a sexist who uses the same rhetoric the Neo-Nazis do to speak at your organization is not a sound business move, so they cancelled it (though to be fair to them, I am sure most of the staff had moral opposition to these people as well, I don't want to paint it fully in just business terms).

This is not rocket surgery.

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BTW, the speaker is a Jew from Lebanon   (Gad Saad) escaped from Muslim persecution, a professor at a university.
Not quite a Nazi fascist at all.

One of the speakers... one of which, you will note, is one I never accused of being a Nazi (infact, none of them I accused of being a Nazi). What he is however someone who promotes modern Social Darwinism and sexism, and has had guests with whom he agrees with on his YouTube show including (wait for it...) white supremacist Spencer, Jordan Peterson who has expressed anti-LGBT rhetoric in Canada, Tommy Robinson of the "European Defense League" (see; bigots), Milo Yana-whatever of the Alt-Right movement (see; Neo-Nazis and white supremacists), Steven Crowder who even FOX News thought was too right wing, and several Christian Apologists and Intelligent Design advocates that directly contradict reality.

But again, even if all of that wasn't true... if the university wanted to, they could cancel their speech because they learned they all like My Little Pony, and they would be within their right because such a speech is a privilege and not a right.


To steal a really stupid as fuck phrase from the alt-right... "Stop acting like a bunch of special snowflakes."
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 02:38:34 AM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2017, 02:52:16 AM »
Then why invite them at all?
Didn’t they know in advance the speakers’ heresy?

Why would you invite Nazis, fascist, far right scum to your hallowed university?
How are those two heretic professors are allowed to teach at all?
Why aren’t they publicly executed?






« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:08:04 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Online Shiranu

Re: Freedom of speech, anyone?
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2017, 03:05:39 AM »
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Then why invite them at all?

Because in normal circumstances, their speech was deemed deplorable but in a free society has a place at the table and perhaps some validity. However given their behaviour, public perception of them is changing and that is no longer the case. Hate speech is not protected under freedom of speech in any civilized country I am aware of. Also from both our articles, the university did not think that they could adequately maintain peace... and frankly, I am not sure a university is equipped to stop the right wing from committing more terrorist attacks either when a full city PD was incapable of doing so.

This may be shocking, but public brand opinion can change on the snap of a finger. Their (the alt-right and anyone associated with defending Nazis and White Supremacists) brand's public opinion stock has dropped like a rock, and their employers therefor cut them to protect their own image. Same reason corporations dropped people like Tiger Woods and Mel Gibson and distanced themselves as fast as possible after their actions.

Again, this is not rocket science but pretty elementary level economics and business...

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Didn’t they know in advance the speakers’ heresy?

They did, and that's what makes you even more of an idiot. They knew these things and still those damn cultural Marxists said, "We believe in a society where you are allowed to say your bigoted and moronic views."

Where were you to sing the cultural Marxist praise for even letting these people speak? Where were you praising universities for allowing diverse and fringe opinions to have an active voice on their property? Funny how you ignore just how much privilege you actually have under "Cultural Marxists"... privileges we sure as fuck wouldn't have under your sides control.


Your reich-wing friends should be counting their lucky stars they aren't doing this back in the "good ol' days"... you think Cultural Marxists are harsh on yall? How do you think FDR's America, Churchill's England, would have responded to this shit? Do you think cancelling speeches would be the biggest slap on the wrist the alt-right who defends Nazism would have got?


If you want to talk about the good ol' days before the "Cultural Marxist" took over, then I want to see you out on the street proclaiming these people should be rotting in jail or being hung for treason, otherwise you are just as much a "Cultural Marxist" yourself.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:09:08 AM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes