Author Topic: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA  (Read 1134 times)

Offline Atheon

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2017, 05:57:03 AM »
I'm reminded of two things that Indiana Jones said:

"It belongs in a museum."
"Nazis! I hate these guys!"

Here in Taiwan, most statues of Chiang Kai-Shek have been taken down and moved to a park.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Online Munch

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 06:28:53 AM »


Also, seriously, comparing the "far left" (who you often have indicated that consider anyone who thinks women should be treated as equal, the LGBT community should be protected, that religious rights should be protected, etc. as the, "far left") with actual fucking Nazis and the KKK. Brilliant.



Ever hear of the horseshoe theory?




Making the claim your sides better then the other side is just denying the serious problems of when extremism goes to far down. Human nature when going to far off a spectrum leads to such extremes, of course anyone on whatever extreme side would try and deny that because there side is perfect.



any sane, rational person understands that there are people on both sides of the political spectrum, and driving for a balance set of ideas is the only way to have a peaceful society. Saying you want just your side to be the dominate side of the political spectrum is just antagonizing for the sake of it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 06:31:07 AM by Munch »

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 07:04:16 AM »
I will always trust one who is emotional over one who is analytical, corporate, and supposedly logical.

Emotion is a core aspect of who we are as humans, and to be informed to remove emotion in any given situation is merely the perpetuation of robotism.

I am no robot, even though I do appreciate and understanding logic having its place. However, logic should never complete an individual.
Who says it does? However, running on raw emotion is great for people who don't want to think.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Shiranu

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 09:43:17 AM »
Ever hear of the horseshoe theory?

(Image removed from quote.)
(Image removed from quote.)

Making the claim your sides better then the other side is just denying the serious problems of when extremism goes to far down. Human nature when going to far off a spectrum leads to such extremes, of course anyone on whatever extreme side would try and deny that because there side is perfect.

(Image removed from quote.)

any sane, rational person understands that there are people on both sides of the political spectrum, and driving for a balance set of ideas is the only way to have a peaceful society. Saying you want just your side to be the dominate side of the political spectrum is just antagonizing for the sake of it.

That was completely irrelevant to anything said but... cool?
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Baruch

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 12:40:16 PM »
Munch - political discourse involved New Speak ... Liberalism today isn't Centrist, it is anarcho-communist (see anti-Fa).  But if you want peace, you have to have justice, and if you want justice, you have to kill millions.  Anarcho-Communists don't want to kill millions themselves, they want someone else to do the dirty work, while they cheer on YouTube.  I am the only one here, who would score near center on that recent poll.

Shiranu - yes, you would be much more comfortable in PC France or PC Germany.  But if you really want to be PC, I would arrest and FEMA camp every Democrat (sarc).  Why argue over past political movements?  We have FEMA camp inductees right here, right now.  Y'all are still just virtue signaling ... you aren't doing anything real about revolution, because as the Chinese say, y'all are paper tigers.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 12:42:36 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2017, 04:00:46 AM »
Both the neo nazis and the far left and fucking vandals, both groups can fuck off since their both extreme sides of the same coin.
There is no equivalence between neo nazis wielding torches, batons, plexiglass shields and AK-47s and peaceful progressives.  You have your own fantasy Munch.  I will not support it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2017, 10:41:36 AM »
Were the Germans committing cultural vandalism when they tore down Nazi propaganda? Were the Chileans committing cultural vandalism when they tore down statues and monuments to Pinochet? The Iraqis when they toppled the Saddam statue? Eastern bloc countries who removed Communist monuments?

Here's the thing; these "cultural landmarks" are of a culture that no human, not a single one, should take pride in. I think they belong in a museum rather than being destroyed, but they have no place in a civilized society when you look at the context these statues were built. At the time they were placed, this is the mindset; "We need to remind those African Americans, that we committed mass genocide against and enslaved, that even though they are now free we are still the masters." These statues were placed for that goal, and for one more... to honour a state that believed in chattel slavery, to revere leaders who waged a terrible and extremely bloody war against it's own government to protect it's right to own slaves and finally to express that even though they lost the war, the pride of what they once were will live on.

These statues have a place and a right to exist I believe, but it's not in public where they can serve their terrible purpose. Rather they should be in museums, or designed to express the historical truth of what they represent. Turn them into Auschwitzs and stigmatize everything they stood for by presenting the truth of who these people were.

The state will not do these things, so people unfortunately took it into their own hands. But the problem is is that people have been asking for these statues to be removed, moved, or otherwise put into context and the Southern states have time and time again said, "Bah, what are you crying about? This is our right!".

No, fuck that. You lost, both the war and any moral high ground as well when you defended slavery, you don't get to brag about how awesome those days were. It's time to move the fuck on and get with the times.

Also, seriously, comparing the "far left" (who you often have indicated that consider anyone who thinks women should be treated as equal, the LGBT community should be protected, that religious rights should be protected, etc. as the, "far left") with actual fucking Nazis and the KKK. Brilliant.


To quote the internet...


(Image removed from quote.)
What you miss is the differences between the symbols you compare.

Many memorials were placed/made not to adhere to or to demonstrate superiority or authority. Some memorials were placed by union soldiers with union money. To respect soldiers who served and help mend the country.

why? because you cant mind a country after civil war by disgracing or ereasing the other side.

in Germany and other locations, they deleted visiual presence to help move people forward. the same could not be done after a civil war.

furthermore, these memorials were for the future generations. to see and remember. otherwise the memorial that recognizes and respects both union and rebel soldiers at gettysburg is lost. that message and the weight of our prior citizens' message is lost.


2. nazis are socialist totaltarians. thats the govt. they want. that puts them at the far left of the political scale.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2017, 11:16:05 AM »
Where's the statues to the Unibomber, Father Coughlin, Tim McVeigh?
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2017, 11:17:17 AM »
What you miss is the differences between the symbols you compare.

Many memorials were placed/made not to adhere to or to demonstrate superiority or authority. Some memorials were placed by union soldiers with union money. To respect soldiers who served and help mend the country.

why? because you cant mind a country after civil war by disgracing or ereasing the other side.

in Germany and other locations, they deleted visiual presence to help move people forward. the same could not be done after a civil war.

furthermore, these memorials were for the future generations. to see and remember. otherwise the memorial that recognizes and respects both union and rebel soldiers at gettysburg is lost. that message and the weight of our prior citizens' message is lost.


2. nazis are socialist totaltarians. thats the govt. they want. that puts them at the far left of the political scale.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

Oh Randonvim, you so completely miss the point.  I had a co=worker much like you.  Pleasnt guy, polite,  southern,  He could discuss civil war battles with me no end (I was equally knowledgable.  But sometimes when he felt comfortable, he would let it slip.  "Blacks were inferior, better off when slaves, useless Jim Crow characters, at best , that Zippidy-Do-Da Guy".  He forgot sometimes, that just because I was a white guy, I might not agree with him.  He loved talking about the Old South as if he had lived in it.  And he wanted to.  He did Civil War re-enactments, pretending he was one of those good old soldiers fighting for Massa Lee and the South!

It is EXACTLY that memory that should have been riven out with the hanging of traitors.  It is one of the few things I disagree about with Lincoln.  The South should never have been allowed to remain glorifying the Civil War they started that left 700,000 young men of promise on both sides dead.  The leaders should have been killed as traitors and disglorified in prisons or gallows.

The statues were not placed at the aftermath of war.  They were placed when Southerners tried again in the 1920 and 1950s to promote racism again.  They should all be destroyed. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Online Sorginak

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2017, 11:18:00 AM »
Where's the statues to the Unibomber, Father Coughlin, Tim McVeigh?

Probably hidden away in basements, away from the public eye, where they deserve to rot.

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2017, 11:29:11 AM »
Oh Randonvim, you so completely miss the point.  I had a co=worker much like you.  Pleasnt guy, polite,  southern,  He could discuss civil war battles with me no end (I was equally knowledgable.  But sometimes when he felt comfortable, he would let it slip.  "Blacks were inferior, better off when slaves, useless Jim Crow characters, at best , that Zippidy-Do-Da Guy".  He forgot sometimes, that just because I was a white guy, I might not agree with him.  He loved talking about the Old South as if he had lived in it.  And he wanted to.  He did Civil War re-enactments, pretending he was one of those good old soldiers fighting for Massa Lee and the South!

It is EXACTLY that memory that should have been riven out with the hanging of traitors.  It is one of the few things I disagree about with Lincoln.  The South should never have been allowed to remain glorifying the Civil War they started that left 700,000 young men of promise on both sides dead.  The leaders should have been killed as traitors and disglorified in prisons or gallows.

The statues were not placed at the aftermath of war.  They were placed when Southerners tried again in the 1920 and 1950s to promote racism again.  They should all be destroyed.
1. Im 3rd generation who never been to the south. My ancestors fled their countries due to opression and idiotic socialism. Im furthest from your friend.

2. You will never change minds of a person by hanging thousands of brothers, cousins, and fathers. thats saved for war criminals and trators during that time.

3. I said memorials. not statues. some statues were built later but memorials are a different matter.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk


Offline Cavebear

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2017, 11:36:30 AM »
1. Im 3rd generation who never been to the south. My ancestors fled their countries due to opression and idiotic socialism. Im furthest from your friend.

2. You will never change minds of a person by hanging thousands of brothers, cousins, and fathers. thats saved for war criminals and trators during that time.

3. I said memorials. not statues. some statues were built later but memorials are a different matter.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk

OK, but the matter at hand is statues that support the ideas of slavery and are sybolic for those who still think some people are lesser than others.

So you have ansectral connections abroad.  Are there people who oppressed your grandparents?  Who are they?  How do you think of them?  Do you want them glorified?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2017, 01:15:13 PM »
I think we should get back to the values of the founding fathers! Arapaho, Shoshone, Apache, etc.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Sorginak

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2017, 01:19:23 PM »
I think we should get back to the values of the founding fathers! Arapaho, Shoshone, Apache, etc.

Only if I can scalp me some white Republicans.

Offline Cavebear

Re: The Cultural VANDALISM of the USA
« Reply #29 on: August 17, 2017, 01:40:29 PM »
I think we should get back to the values of the founding fathers! Arapaho, Shoshone, Apache, etc.

Are you interested in Native American origins and immigration to the Americas?  I would like to discuss that.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!