Author Topic: Evolution - A question to all  (Read 269 times)

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2017, 10:16:05 PM »
1. Evolution occurs over billions of years - and that this time frame is absolutely necessary. Is this an accurate understanding?
My young earth creationist sense is tingling.

Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2017, 06:37:22 AM »
My young earth creationist sense is tingling.

Paranoia ... let him speak for himself, before you kick him to the curb.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2017, 06:38:22 AM »
a great mystical being floats above the entire universe....seeing it as it is but a small town...knowing all and moving time and people to suit his desires....he demands babies be killed and little girls be raped for him, winks at donkey and goat fucking but draws the line at shaving your beard or wearing polyester.....

Dogs can't grow beards, so you are safe ;-)
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Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2017, 07:11:40 AM »
Dogs can't grow beards, so you are safe ;-)

All is possible with evolution.

Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline trdsf

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2017, 11:17:02 AM »
1. Evolution occurs over billions of years - and that this time frame is absolutely necessary. Is this an accurate understanding?

To get from a bacterium to a complex animal?  Probably billions are required, but that's not certain.

What we don't know is if our own planet's experience is average or not -- we assume it is on the basis of the principle of mediocrity (that is, we are more likely to be typical of a particular class than extreme), but since we have not yet encountered complex life from a different origin, we cannot say with certainty.  We can say that on Earth, it took about half a billion years for the naturally-occurring chemicals of life to develop into something we could unambiguously call living, and that it took three billion years to get from there to the Cambrian Explosion.  Every large animal comes after that point, so once multicellularity and sex are stumbled upon, development is very rapid -- not billions of years, but millions.

Now, to get from a wolf to a chihuahua only takes a few thousand years -- that's all the longer it took us through domestication and selective breeding.  To get from the now-extinct aurochs to today's modern cattle has only taken about two thousand years.

So really, the answer is no, billions are not required, but you're better off having them to evolve anything more interesting than a cell.

2. Could you expand on the mechanism, in terms of whether you believe it is via random mutation over a long period of time with natural selection for example.

Both.  They're not mutually exclusive processes.  Random mutation happens, natural selection weeds out the random mutations that are less beneficial, and selects for the ones that are more beneficial.  Probably one of the best attested examples observed -- not theorized or inferred from the fossil record, but actually observed in the field -- is that of the peppered moths of England's industrial regions.  before the Industrial Revolution, the black peppered moth was not known -- the first live specimen was not caught until 1848.  By 1895, the black peppered moth accounted for 98% of the peppered moth population because as industrial pollution darkened their usual perches with soot and other pollutants, the dark coloration blended better and the white moths became preferentially targeted by predators.  Industrial melanism is a well-understood and frequently observed process.

It's worth noting that with clean air legislation in place, the white moth is making a comeback, confirming that pollution was the driving factor.  Evolution by mutation and natural selection explains this perfectly.  No other theory does.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2017, 03:59:49 PM »
It only took a few decades to transform foxes into something very much like dogs.




Quote
The Russian domesticated red fox is a domesticated form of the red fox (Vulpes vulpes). They are the result of an experiment which was designed to demonstrate the power of selective breeding to transform species, as described by Charles Darwin in On the Origin of Species.[1] The experiment was purposefully designed to replicate the process that produced dogs from wolves, by recording the changes in foxes, when in each generation only the most tame foxes were allowed to breed. In short order the descendant foxes became tamer and more dog-like.[2][3]

The program was started in 1959 in the Soviet Union by zoologist Dmitry Belyayev.[2], it has been in continuous operation since. Today, the experiment is under the supervision of Lyudmila Trut, in Russia, at the Institute of Cytology and Genetics in Novosibirsk.[4][5][3]
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
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Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2017, 04:09:11 PM »
It only took a few decades to transform foxes into something very much like dogs.

They tried that with silver foxes, making them more docile. The breed went to shit. Just like domestic dogs.


« Last Edit: August 16, 2017, 04:12:42 PM by Gawdzilla Sama »
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2017, 07:47:28 PM »
They tried that with silver foxes, making them more docile. The breed went to shit. Just like domestic dogs.
Well, hell, if they don't shit they'll explode!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2017, 09:03:54 PM »
They tried that with silver foxes, making them more docile. The breed went to shit. Just like domestic dogs.

So far, only species that were initially defective, have been domesticated by breeding.  Horses are defective, even in ancient times.  Zebras have never been trained.  And even domesticated species can go feral under selected circumstances.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Evolution - A question to all
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2017, 04:43:20 AM »
In order to try to obtain an understanding of what the forum as a whole believes pertaining to the theory of evolution, i would like to ask the following questions:

1. What do you understand by Evolution?

2. What mechanism do you believe is required?

3. What time-scale?

4. How important is 2

5. How important is 3.


Thank you - and a discussion can follow after i receive enough responses!

Answers, (though I doubt you will accept or understand them)

1.  Evolution is the gradual adjustment  of a species to changing conditions.

2.  Natural Selection is the process; mutations are the method .

3.  The time scale varies.  In unchanging conditions, it is slow.  In challenging times, it is faster. 

4.  2 and 3 are both important.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!