Author Topic: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?  (Read 310 times)

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2017, 08:33:02 AM »
@Cavebear ebear...people are trying to discuss here . stop fooling  will ya ? come  back next week . 

Roughly in my own words here is her take   .

1-   The OMB  plays behind the scenes . they can and do project a democratic edifice calling for democratic government and civil rule .they let their other arms  face the music in case there is retaliation by regimes. They do not lead . they plan orchestrate in the background .

2-   Once they gain the reign of powers they quickly and immediately engage in liquidation of democratic institutions…….for  example ,  purge of secular members of military , police, intelligence. . Next seizer  of country wealth either by confiscation , assassination, grants of concession to all lucrative  government  contracts to its members and  diversion of tax revenues and custom tariffs to off shore bank accounts . sale of government land and money off to off  shore banks ,  massive print out of local currency to buy all hard currency in and coming into the country  , inflame inflation to force people to spend their savings , expatriates to send more money to relatives exchanged with fast devaluating local currency .  all government granted privileges  in terms of license to do business impacting stable diets reassigned to its members  as well as insurance, banking ( Islamic banking) , import /export  all of that is called by them Tamkeen / enablement .remmber that word Tamkeen or tamkin . key word in their literature

3-   to fill in for all the theft of the country wealth they borrow money to keep things  running  from for example, imf  or and oil gulf countries in collusion with them .. the money that they borrow from Oil rich golf countries is actually their money they deposited in those oil rich gulf countries from robbing the wealth of the country they control , who in turn deposit the money  in the west to accrue interest or in western funds .  if they get ejected they got all the country wealth outside the country and the people of the country are stuck with the massive debts .

4-   all international charity services and donation must go through them . they appropriate all of it . UN donated food and what have you sold openly. They get the donated services and food and what not and profit from it  . In return the UN  gets the commissions and administrative costs . 

the vital thing here to understand , the OMB  is not nation based idea .  Its an international organization. it goes into a country to suck the blood out of that country . its not there for the welfare of the country .

1-   once they grab the power  or  once they set their foot in a country , they bring in their affiliated violent arms ,Islamic  jihad orgs, Islamic jama’t orgs for example.  Islamic jihad orgs are specialized in assassination of opponents inside and outside . Islamic jama’t are specialized in recruiting from colleges , mosques , prisons and assigning  those recruits according to potential to the OMB itself or Islamic jihad , etc

2-   Once in the  country for an extended period either as rulers or infiltrators they create an extremely  charged environment  where there are so many affiliated splinters Islamic- cut throat militias  or orgs  , potential lone wolves , so that if the OMB gets ejected a power void is created and the place explodes into in fighting . they set it up so that they and they only can keep the relative peace. s gives them leverage either with rival regime in power or dissuades foreign players from ejecting them in case they are in power  or listing them as terrorist orgs.

3-   In terms of population control in countries they control they have set up a mechanism to liquidate one third of the city if that is what it takes to stay in power.  They make that well known to any opposition with any ideas to get in their way . opposition groups know very well that the OMB doesn’t play around . they will half a city to stay in power.

Who is this OMB?   Obviously Hasan Al Bana is not the originator . she said he had wahabist persuasions . but she didn’t say much more on that . we’re done with her . I threw her book out the window. She is too scared to talk. Let’s  move to the next expert

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2017, 11:42:55 AM »
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Offline Cavebear

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2017, 03:39:49 PM »
@Cavebear ebear...people are trying to discuss here . stop fooling  will ya ? come  back next week . 

Roughly in my own words here is her take   .

1-   The OMB  plays behind the scenes . they can and do project a democratic edifice calling for democratic government and civil rule .they let their other arms  face the music in case there is retaliation by regimes. They do not lead . they plan orchestrate in the background .

Ibn, are you arguing for a particular Islamist view or against it all.  It is hard to tell.  OK, I want to hear more.  But try a couple short paragraphs at a time and a few focused thoughts...

That's why I'm here.  You just make more sense than Baruch ever dioes...

I will admit that too much argument at once is hard to absorb.  Give a bit of information and wait...
« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 06:18:42 PM by Cavebear »
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2017, 04:16:20 AM »
@ Caveman. Too early to argumentation. 

 Here is what the  OMB guy said to me. He said Muslims (ottomans)  ruled Greeks for 300 years without Islam making an impression on them. They stayed Christian. Two there is something in Islam called Mu’alaf. That is a person you pay off to become a Muslim and stay that way .this first phase. Second phase work  on the guy , relatives , kids , the young ones, his family/relatives  to make them bona fide Muslims. Marriage to them , make the kids who grow Muslims. Something like that .  based on that he said their Dawa ( call ) efforts  is being directed at Atheists , agnostics, non religious etc. family law is the big  hitch for them.

if there are things   you do not understand ,  fix them . make what I say understandable or fix the erros or change altogether. I don't mind. . . That is how you can help. If you want to , that is . the books are large and I have to skim through them quickly.translate shit truthfully .add to that   I have three screens starring at me with numbers flying. Phone to talk.  and that neurotic feisty combative western woman of mine who has to be the center of attention .i have to throw stuff on the screen in  quick . Sorry. but I do read whole  pamphlets .newsletters   at times .  several at once  . don't worry about being exact . fix things later .


Online Baruch

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2017, 06:39:54 AM »
With the Ottomans, they also kidnapped Christian boys, to raise them as Muslim pretorian guard of the Sultan, as Janissaries.  But that is old times, and even other Muslims didn't like the Ottomans.
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Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 10:16:55 AM »
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon

Online Baruch

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 12:31:56 PM »
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon

Ikhwan - as in Ibn Saud militia?  The Ibn Saud family was backed by the India Office (British Empire had two different Foreign Ministries ... ) and by the Americans.  This trumped the Hashemites backed by the Foreign Office and Lawrence.

But you are talking over a larger question, not just Ottomans.

There is nothing new that humans use ideology and theology to structure the rationalizing of their actions, both good and bad.  If you have an independent conscience, then you will find the actions of people to be deeply disturbing ... and their ideology and theology to be hypocrisy.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 12:34:16 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 02:28:33 AM »
pre what ?pre orient  cookies. ?

Still going on . check Boko Hara, egypt,  all over africa.ISIS . or those don't count Barouch? because they are not white Barouch?? thats terrible. see see ,  i knew there was something up with you.now I know.

found three Muslim Ikhwans ( Muslim brothers ). total death list so far 4 million. Ikhwan killed four million people. actually Akhwan . Muslim Akhwan--, Muslim Brothers.  Ikhwan, thats egyption. me I say tashakhbatoon

I am a completely non-cultural, non-racist atheist.  All theisms are idiotic regardless of where and by whom.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2017, 08:59:00 AM »
OP, you should enter yourself in the new Olympic event,  babbling on about nonsense on forums.  You'll win a gold medal hands down .
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2017, 10:18:48 AM »
did i say all that . did I really? well its up there so I must have

itsd a problem I tell you.We have serious problem . Barouch has  been here much longer than me and cave bear understood zero from hi. My situation is better way better than you  . With me cavebear understood two zeros and thats  just in  the short time  I have been. at this rate i shoudl be able to get to three zeros now. .

wait for me . don't go anywhere . I shall return.

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2017, 12:56:22 PM »

wait for me . don't go anywhere . I shall return.
But................why??????
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2017, 04:39:38 AM »
ask yourself . i got nothing to do with it .

talk about The OMB . I order you. you do as I order you to do.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2017, 06:41:53 AM »
But................why??????

Leave if you must, but know that we atheists LOVE reading your stupidity and would hate to see you leave for lack of an opportunity for a sarcastic reply to start out every day.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2017, 02:32:32 AM »
cavebear,  this is not the time. There is no we . you’re not awake  you keep playing around and I’ll lose my focus and the articles will get longer . go read Dr Seuss take  on Wikipedia and report to me . .be good boy. behave yourself. now run along. get a life 

This is  going to conclude with something that has been  going on lately. The OMB is recruiting what it calls  Atheist Muslim. Atheists for Islam groups.  But first allow me to finish my exposition about the three experts take on the OMB.. 

*****7 million butchered when the world was much smaller *****

Scholars caution not  to  mix between AL AKhwan (brothers ) of Arabia with the Akhawn of Egypt . Don’t pay them any mind . they’re all the same  .  they all have  the same rule and want the same thing. .Sharia and the restoration of the Caliph/ one mosque, one authority.

 Goal.....Resurrect Mohammed and company,  The  Joint Sultan and Alim(cleric) rule. those who  refuse to go along Kill  , take the  property and women and children .

 Not everyone, with some people, whether they go along or not it doesn’t matter. Kill them and take their property and violate their women , regardless. Like yazidis .. note ISIS didn’t offer Yazidis the option to convert. they just went ahead and helped themselves .
.
The union of the Sultan and the Alim( clergy)  .that’s what you look for .once that union is created   death and mayhem ensues .

How the two were joined in Arabia in the  1800.

There  was a guy called Mohammed Abd Al Whab. Basically an ignoramus  who was calling for the establishment of the Caliph .Guy was very disgusted with current affairs. Wealthy Ottomans dressed  lavishly showing their wealth on pilgrimage. Sufi Sheikhs screwing the women in exchange of supplying them with a spell  written on small paper to make sure husband doesn’t take a second  wife and what have you in terms of family affairs.    He kept talking that BS until his clan alarmed by it  all  threw his behind out.

 scholars try to throw a smoke screen about what the guy is about. They say he came up with the Takfir idea  and in particular takfir of Muslims and that his Takfir meant ,  any Muslim  who didn’t go along with his idea of caliph is to be killed. They say it as if the guy came up with the idea. That is BS. Its not new. Its old. Abd AL wahab didn’t invent  it . he got it from the Islamic narrative of  Mohammed and his companion. But scholars can’t say that openly. The Muslims , Ottomans and sufis,  he had condemned , would have been considered Kafirs by Mohammed nad the judgement of Kafir per sharia falls on them .

All the years Abd al Wahab talked that shit nothing happened .not one thing.  just another  schizo mouthing away. Exactly and precisely as was the case  with Mohammed . Nobody got killed . No women and children were taken captive and violated. Everything  normal.

At  the same time there was a small time clan chief living the normal desert life. Abd al Aziz of ibn saud .  Now and then going on raids , taking other Arab clans by surprise in the middle of nite and taking off with some of their stuff . but desert codes were observed . no wanton muderous shit. you didn't resist , he took off with the grain and fabric sort of thing. and few camels. . . Specially exciting times for all the clans  were those  pilgrimage times when the clans attacked robbed  pilgrimages  which helped sustain the clans through the harsh arid land.

Abd AL wahab who got kicked out by his clan had serious problem. Disowned by his  clan  that meant his blood can be shed with impunity . he was no longer under the protection of his  clan. Like Cain in the bible , God threw him out of his presence and so shedding his  blood became  open to others .  .

 Abd AL Azziz  offerd him refuge , liking and approving of one authority one mosque doctrine . That in effect created the union  of the Sultan and Alim .

With Mohammed it was union of himself with two cut throat  tribes  of  yathrib.

From that point on  the program changed . no more just raiding . Abd AL Aziz attacked weaker clans with the full weight of his clan. All warriors from young and old were marshaled … not raid but battle .  Banners and flags  were constructed and waved , with a battle cry c Allah wa akbar , la Ilah ila Allah , according to religion Allah shall reward me , according to my faith Allah shall reward me, according to my ancestors he shall. Allah wa  Akbar ,  slay the look alike of men but are not men , cleanse the land from the accursed . . they fill Allah heart with rage . Allah wa Akbar , etc.  . the weaker clan was butchered graphically . It drew the young men from all over the tribes. sex and violence. They wanted to join in . .other clans seeing what is happening offered their allegiance. he kept on doing it  till he had sizable army.

And so  Islam was back

the terror of the land resurrected .   it was better than Jenkins Khan. Khan killed only half the place if they surrendered to him.  . Abd AL Aziz killed everyone .. no one was spared . women but for the plump ones were destroyed . rules had to be obeyed . take too many women and children how are you going to feed them? So kill them all, take the wealth and few women to replace the ones you got fed up with or you can’t sell  and young kids for future slave warriors.

 By  the time the Ottomans managed to enlist the services of Mohammed Ali Basha of Egypt between Abd Al Aziz and his two sons , FOUR MILLION people were killed. The killing spread from Arabia to Iraq , Syria and Palestine .It was as if  ISIS operated unhindered.

  Ibn Saud operated freely until Mohammed Ali Bash with his at the early stages modernized army stepped into the scene . untill then rampage meant  life was great , plenty food to eat, so much money and precious stuff, herds of camels . women sex slaves . ,Allah does indeed bestow his  gifts on those who listen ..

You know  they tell you that Mohammed was poor ? Not  true . one time poor impecunious Mohammed reached such highs he  supplied  his wives with enough sustenance to last  two years straight. Man did great . from broke ass Mecca resident to top of the heap yathrib immigrant.  And young people love a success story like that.

As with ISIS and as with Mohammed who took one fifth of the loot ,  Abed Al aziz did the same. Shit alienated some of  his main Arab tribal  allies. They made a deal with Mohammed Ali rep and AL Saud  were whipped at Asir . the rest withdrew into the desert.

The Union was unraveled . Mohammed Ali boys took all the clerics , the abd al wahabs and cut off their heads . They left all the clan chiefs alone except for Ibn Saud whom they  exquisitely executed .

.half ass solution.  The alim was gone but the sultan remained . and anyways you could always manufacture more clerics in the future. Better still they manufacturer themselves . Islam  does it for you..

The Idea  was in  India and it was main cause behind the split of India. Moreover  The wahabis of western Pakistan butchered 3 million eastern Pakistanis ( now Bangladesh) . a major massacre that the media never talked about .

So total harvest  was 7 Million give and take..
 
Will make comments later on. Give you a chance first .asleep people who think they’re awake are not  included.

Online Baruch

Re: Is it possible to reform Atheism ?
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2017, 05:07:14 AM »
The human story is mostly tragedy, not much comedy ;-(
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