Author Topic: Patriarchy?  (Read 1205 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #105 on: August 08, 2017, 07:31:06 PM »
Third-wave feminists living in those countries mention "those groups".

Third-wave feminists living in USA or Canada mention issues they face at home. Why would they talk about issues thousands of miles away that have no impact on them?

The two are not mutually exclusive. Not that difficult to understand.

You seem to confuse feminist principles with activism. All feminists may share the same basic principles, and a discussion with any feminist will be enough to show this, but activism occurs within one's own country.

Sometimes.  Occasionally, women activists seek out greater international impact.  Like that poor girl who threw herself under the Israeli bulldozer in Gaza a few years back.  Activists .. don't seem so mentally stable to me .. never did.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #106 on: August 09, 2017, 01:43:56 AM »
It's not??????

I don't think the LOTR is real.  But it is a decent story.  And The Silmarillion much more inventive than that in the beginning.  Theists always love to see we atheists liking any fiction, because they think it makes us similar to them.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #107 on: August 09, 2017, 07:14:38 AM »
I don't think the LOTR is real.  But it is a decent story.  And The Silmarillion much more inventive than that in the beginning.  Theists always love to see we atheists liking any fiction, because they think it makes us similar to them.

Strange response .. the Silmarillion (yes, I read it, years ago) is more like mythology, and LOTR is more like legend.  I would think your preferences would be the opposite of what you just claimed.  Usually atheists are opposed to all manifestations of the imagination, like Sunni Muslims.
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Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #108 on: August 09, 2017, 08:57:08 AM »
the weird thing is.... as I mentioned before, I find fault in a lot of feminist rhetoric. The extremely visible "postergirls" for feminism tend to be extremely toxic and I don't support their man-hating, but pr is so off-kilter that he overshadows all of their stupidity with his.
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline Munch

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #109 on: August 09, 2017, 09:11:29 AM »
Strange response .. the Silmarillion (yes, I read it, years ago) is more like mythology, and LOTR is more like legend.  I would think your preferences would be the opposite of what you just claimed.  Usually atheists are opposed to all manifestations of the imagination, like Sunni Muslims.

Thats not true, pretty sure the majority of atheists like fictional works, from starwars to lord of the rings, so any fictional backstory in movies, tv, games and comics. The difference is we know its all fictional and made up stories to escape to, where as the religious think their made up stories in their fictional cult books are real, and demand everyone accept it as being real, despite it being all made up.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #110 on: August 09, 2017, 10:00:32 AM »
Thats not true, pretty sure the majority of atheists like fictional works, from starwars to lord of the rings, so any fictional backstory in movies, tv, games and comics. The difference is we know its all fictional and made up stories to escape to, where as the religious think their made up stories in their fictional cult books are real, and demand everyone accept it as being real, despite it being all made up.

Hear, Hear!  Right what I was thinking and hadn't posted yet!  My ability to accept fiction for the purpose of a good evening's amusement story is not the same thing as accepting such stories as "true".  And my enjoyment of good  human-created fiction does not make me confused about religious fictions purporting to be real.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #111 on: August 09, 2017, 01:15:35 PM »
Y'all totally missed my point, about mythology vs legend.  And reacted to what you thought I said, not what I did say.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #112 on: August 09, 2017, 02:09:25 PM »
I wonder.  If I just opened the christian text to any page what would I find?  Reality?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #113 on: August 09, 2017, 04:46:06 PM »
thats easy to say, but when these activists you mention do so under the banner of feminism, its hard to dismiss it being the driving force behind their activism.

You misunderstood me. I was talking about feminist activism, which occurs within one's own country. I wasn't disassociating feminism with activism.

For example, why would American feminists talk about Sharia law in the United States? It does not exist here, and is illegal. Hence, they focus on issues impacting women in the United States, like the wage gap and continuous assault on women's reproductive rights.

However, Muslim feminists in countries ruled by Sharia do talk about it. You don't hear western feminists talking about the right to drive, but Saudi feminists do, because it's illegal for Saudi women to drive. You don't hear Muslim feminists talking about the wage gap or reproductive rights, because they haven't even attained even more basic ones like right to drive, or right to vote (in some places), or simply the right to be their own person.

Western feminists are unfairly criticized based on this pretense, and their plights are downplayed and mocked when compared to plight of women living in worse conditions. When western women were living under Sharia-like conditions, those same people criticizing them were the ones responsible for these conditions.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #114 on: August 09, 2017, 04:48:51 PM »
Sometimes.  Occasionally, women activists seek out greater international impact.  Like that poor girl who threw herself under the Israeli bulldozer in Gaza a few years back.  Activists .. don't seem so mentally stable to me .. never did.

I'm strictly speaking about feminist activism. That usually occurs within one's own country. What's the purpose of activism? To bring political and social change, which is usually spearheaded by people living within that community.

There are, of course, other kinds of activism that reach global stage. Some feminists even speak global issues facing women and that's also important. But the bulk of activist work occurs within one's own country.
"To live is the rarest thing in the world. Most people exist, that is all." --Oscar Wilde

Offline Cavebear

Re: Patriarchy?
« Reply #115 on: August 09, 2017, 05:37:01 PM »
I'm strictly speaking about feminist activism. That usually occurs within one's own country. What's the purpose of activism? To bring political and social change, which is usually spearheaded by people living within that community.

There are, of course, other kinds of activism that reach global stage. Some feminists even speak global issues facing women and that's also important. But the bulk of activist work occurs within one's own country.

Well said.  Sharia law is not an issue here (though Christian Law sometimes is).  The point is where to make which arguments.  Sharia law there, christian law here, and whatever other religious law where it is applied.

Rational laws everywhere!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950