Author Topic: Female Teacher Predators  (Read 1159 times)

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2017, 02:46:24 PM »
Funny how in all the thousands of years since people invented gods they haven't come up with any proof for them.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #91 on: August 14, 2017, 04:54:19 PM »
Mike, according to your philosophy of ethics all ethics are equally valid and made up by people's opinion of what is right or wrong therefore the Holocaust though despicable was nonetheless ethical from your point of view because the Germans decided that Jews were sub-human and codified that belief. Yet you say my basis of ethics is wrong headed. From my philosophical point of view there are real rights and wrongs regardless of opinion. It wasn't only wrong for the Nazi's to exterminate the Jews it was an evil act . You condemn the act while approving of it. Whether you agree or not, if you live in the USA the very notion of our government is theistic-ally based.

Where or when did I say all ethics are equally valid?  The holocaust was not ethical from 'my point of view' (I did not tell what that was), but from the society that created it, it was ethical.  Many societies have made evil acts ethical according to that societies standards.  I'm not going to take the time or effort to look them up and list for you--you can google as well as anybody else.  From my point of view the holocaust was/is evil.  So is slavery.  So is rape.  And on and on.  Personally, I consider all acts I think evil as evil and unethical; and all acts I condone as being ethical.  Just because any particular society deems something as ethical does not make it so for other societies or times.  Ethics are not static--they change with time and environment.  They are not simple.  They are not cut and dried.  It is not as easy as saying 'god said so'. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #92 on: August 14, 2017, 05:01:00 PM »


We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed...

Its been working in the USA for over 200 years whether you like it or not. Regardless of the sincerity of your faith there is no Creator you don't know that to be true you just pretend its a fact.
Let me say that that statement is a great one.  I think if it were followed it would make for a great society and government.  I love it.  But was not followed from before day one.  It did not set free one slave.  It did not make men and women equal.  It did not make the landed equal with the unlanded.  Little about the US from the beginning was equal for all--only a few.  That does not mean the US was not a step up from most other govts,; I think it was.  But the average joe runs this statement out as though it was followed from the beginning and is still being followed.  I think you do Drew because you are a white male--and from your viewpoint that's pretty good.  Do some actual thinking and do some real research into our history.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #93 on: August 14, 2017, 05:42:27 PM »
Let me say that that statement is a great one.  I think if it were followed it would make for a great society and government.  I love it.  But was not followed from before day one.  It did not set free one slave.  It did not make men and women equal.  It did not make the landed equal with the unlanded.  Little about the US from the beginning was equal for all--only a few.  That does not mean the US was not a step up from most other govts,; I think it was.  But the average joe runs this statement out as though it was followed from the beginning and is still being followed.  I think you do Drew because you are a white male--and from your viewpoint that's pretty good.  Do some actual thinking and do some real research into our history.

We do live in a great society and the words went from theory into practice in a difficult growing struggle that led to the civil war and many other civil upheavals and adjustment. This is why the Gettysburg address was so critical to the growth of this radically experimental government. Lincoln was putting lives on the line to the proposition that all me are created equal. Lincoln deliberately chose the words in the Declaration of Independence in his speech. Its also the basis for woman's suffrage. There is a lot of correlation between abolitionists and woman's rights because they appealed to the same idea that all men (including woman) are equal. I'm sure the founding fathers were well aware the Declaration of Independence was far more of an ideal than a reality. Lincoln made it a reality in regards to slaves. 

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
November 19, 1863


Quote
I think you do Drew because you are a white male--and from your viewpoint that's pretty good

Slick. When all else fails inject race into the argument...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2017, 05:51:56 PM »
We do live in a great society and the words went from theory into practice in a difficult growing struggle that led to the civil war and many other civil upheavals and adjustment. This is why the Gettysburg address was so critical to the growth of this radically experimental government. Lincoln was putting lives on the line to the proposition that all me are created equal. Lincoln deliberately chose the words in the Declaration of Independence in his speech. Its also the basis for woman's suffrage. There is a lot of correlation between abolitionists and woman's rights because they appealed to the same idea that all men (including woman) are equal. I'm sure the founding fathers were well aware the Declaration of Independence was far more of an ideal than a reality. Lincoln made it a reality in regards to slaves. 

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Abraham Lincoln
November 19, 1863


Slick. When all else fails inject race into the argument...
You are just too fucking stupid to try a have a discussion with.  You ARE the poster child for a trump follower. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2017, 06:06:51 PM »
Where or when did I say all ethics are equally valid?  The holocaust was not ethical from 'my point of view' (I did not tell what that was), but from the society that created it, it was ethical.  Many societies have made evil acts ethical according to that societies standards.  I'm not going to take the time or effort to look them up and list for you--you can google as well as anybody else.  From my point of view the holocaust was/is evil.  So is slavery.  So is rape.  And on and on.  Personally, I consider all acts I think evil as evil and unethical; and all acts I condone as being ethical.  Just because any particular society deems something as ethical does not make it so for other societies or times.  Ethics are not static--they change with time and environment.  They are not simple.  They are not cut and dried.  It is not as easy as saying 'god said so'.

Mike..you're tripping yourself up. That you can say the Holocaust was ethical for that society (even if not for you personally) means that there ethics (though not the same as yours) are morally equivalent. The underlying premise you've bought into this argument is that ethics, values, morals are something people make up and nothing more. They made up values and ethics you find reprehensible but at the same time acknowledge they are equally valid according to your definition of ethics.

You can only disagree with the Holocaust but you can't condemn it unless you think its really wrong and you're appealing to some standard beyond your own personal opinion. But what would that be?

To your other point you misunderstand. I'm not referring to any written religious text as a source for morality only the belief in a Creator that intentionally caused our existence as opposed to the belief we owe our existence to mindless forces that never intended our existence. If the latter is true your brand of ethics makes sense. We can't say as humans we are special and deserve special rights because we're nothing more than the by product of mindless forces that caused everything else to exist and never intended our existence.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Offline Baruch

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2017, 06:07:53 PM »
American Revolutionaries - crazy
French Revolutionaries - crazy
1825 Decembrist Russian Revolutionaries - crazy
!848 Pan Euro Revolutionaries - crazy
1860 Italian Revolutionaries - crazy
1861 Confederate Revolutionaries - crazy
1865 Reconstruction Revolutionaries - crazy
etc

See a pattern here?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2017, 06:09:40 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2017, 06:09:14 PM »
You are just too fucking stupid to try a have a discussion with.  You ARE the poster child for a trump follower.

I love it when my opponent runs out of intellectual steam gets mad and tosses the chessboard in the air....
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Offline Baruch

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2017, 06:11:41 PM »
I love it when my opponent runs out of intellectual steam gets mad and tosses the chessboard in the air....

Mike is an old guy like me, go easy on us ;-)  I happen to agree with him on subjective vs objective ethics (if we confine ourselves to non-pathological people).
שלום

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2017, 07:23:37 PM »
I love it when my opponent runs out of intellectual steam gets mad and tosses the chessboard in the air....
Not out of steam (spend most of my time there playing my games)--just rubbing my nose in the fact that you have a belief and no matter what you true it into a fact.  No point in trying with you.  So, for the third time, I'll just try to ignore you.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #100 on: August 14, 2017, 08:16:33 PM »
Mike is an old guy like me, go easy on us ;-)  I happen to agree with him on subjective vs objective ethics (if we confine ourselves to non-pathological people).

Go easy? I didn't say what I did in a vacuum it was in response to...

Quote
You are just too fucking stupid to try a have a discussion with.  You ARE the poster child for a trump follower.

And I'm no spring chicken either.



Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jex6k2uvf9aljrq/theism.rtf?dl=0

Offline Cavebear

Re: Female Teacher Predators
« Reply #101 on: August 17, 2017, 05:50:50 AM »
Its been working in the USA for over 200 years whether you like it or not. Regardless of the sincerity of your faith there is no Creator you don't know that to be true you just pretend its a fact.

You are conflating both ethics with beliefs and the Declaration Of Independence with the Constitution.  The ethics involved in the Declaration of Independence are affirmatory and the Constitution is merely the construct of Government vis a vis the people.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950