Author Topic: Islamic reformation possible?  (Read 597 times)

Offline Shiranu

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #90 on: August 15, 2017, 12:16:55 AM »
Quote
Islam does not have such a distinction...

Try telling that to the various royal families, dictators, secular states and terrorist groups spread across the Islamic world...
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2017, 06:48:18 AM »
The West had a one up on reformation because of the distinction between Church and State.  Not separation, that came later, but separation had its roots in distinction.

To put it simply, the religious and secular authorities were not the same person.  They relied on each other in a very incestuous relationship, and the "fight" between them that litters the history books was over who was to be senior partner, but they both agreed that both were separate and both were necessary.

That distinction eventually proved to be the wedge that divided them during first the protestant reformation and then later the age of enlightenment.

Islam does not have such a distinction, and as such needs to learn it from the West if they are to reform in the manner discussed in this thread.
Oh but the Church and State WERE partners in ruling all the lands of Europe after the Romans got all worn out.  They loved each other, trading money, influence, titles and all that.  Where to you think the Holy Roman Empire came from in the 800s to the 13th century...?
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Online Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2017, 06:59:00 AM »
Oh but the Church and State WERE partners in ruling all the lands of Europe after the Romans got all worn out.  They loved each other, trading money, influence, titles and all that.  Where to you think the Holy Roman Empire came from in the 800s to the 13th century...?

And that is why the HRE aka Germany is still a problem ;-)
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Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #93 on: August 17, 2017, 09:46:51 PM »
Oh but the Church and State WERE partners in ruling all the lands of Europe after the Romans got all worn out.  They loved each other, trading money, influence, titles and all that.  Where to you think the Holy Roman Empire came from in the 800s to the 13th century...?

I agree they were partners, but partners implies two parties which was my point.

Even though the Muslim countries with their royal families aren't priest-kings, there is a difference even yet.  The medieval peasant was subject to church law and secular law, but they were distinct and separate law.  In many Muslim majority countries Sharia law is part of the law of the government even under a monarch.  Some dictators dispense with it.  The democracies struggle with it but are able to struggle because the distinction between church and state is something they are learning.
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