Author Topic: Islamic reformation possible?  (Read 1930 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 06:38:15 AM »
Medieval Jewish philosophy, which I am studying, couldn't have happened without Medieval Islamic philosophy.  And there are selected Medieval Christian thinkers (author of Imitatio Christi is late Middle Ages) who I appreciate.  The Middle Ages weren't all bad.  And I read their ancient predecessors.  All of that ... including the exogamous influence of Islam ... are part of Western Civilization.

Shiranu ... the position of self hate and obsession with correct behavior .. is so Jewish (pre WW II).  Are you sure you aren't Jewish?
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Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2017, 07:10:19 AM »
Forbidden questions:

Ever wondered why our leaders, the media, and academia consistently lie about Islam?

Why is the left helping, promoting, financing Islam?

Why are those people marginalized, demonized, and sometimes dragged to court who tell the truth about Islam?

Why is the religion of peace can only be sustained by deception and lethal violence?

Why is it that when a jihadist after a terrorist attack justifies his deed by the commands of the Quran, he is not believed but declared mentally unstable or distorting the Quran?



« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 12:03:08 PM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Munch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2017, 10:49:09 AM »
Pr126 ... you know Islam better than most Muslims.  I know Christianity better than most Christians.  So by now, given your obsession ... you should be Muslim yourself.  My excuse is I was married to a Christian woman.  I am glad you bake bread etc ... while not studying Islam.

I think you have things backward ... I don't condemn ideas, like infective memes.  Entertaining ideas is something I am comfortable with.  Free thought and free speech.  I condemn the behavior (beyond speech), not the ideas that people hold.  And therefore I condemn individual humans, including individual Muslims.  Otherwise, I would want to genocide all Germans (as holders of the meme of Germaneness) ... which is inconsistent because I am part German.

But I understand where you are coming from.  And I join you in condemning identity politics and virtue signaling.  The idea that we must tolerate all human behavior ... is self destructive.  Some behavior is criminal, even collectively criminal.

Its why I hold a lot of respect for you Baruch, you have your own take on things but are open to ideas and opinions on such subjects, I can have a conversation with you about the state of religion and non belief and the people associated with it, without any offense being perceived.

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2017, 12:45:54 PM »
I am not triggered (as the young seem to be).  If I say I am, it is sarcasm.  I am not hostile to humanity, but I do understand that some people need to be restrained, because of their anti-social tendencies.  Being anti-social in a way that doesn't physically touch me or my property ... is tolerable.  Otherwise we have to stop free speech and free thought, as Google, Facebook etc are trying to do.  Cultural Marxists of course are anti-my body, anti-my property and very much in favor of ending free speech and free thought, for the good of the proletariat.
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Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2017, 02:39:37 AM »
Moderate Muslims (I call them inactive Muslims) do not drive Islam.
The radicals devout do.
The "moderates"  are the silent majority waiting to see which way it will turn.

Once the west fell to Islam (not an impossibility, see the EU) then watch all those moderates spring into action.
And run for your lives.

You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."
Resistance is futile? Who is resisting? Only bigoted racist Islamophobes would.
They will be dealt with soon enough.

Well, Islam has been doing this for 14 centuries. This is no longer taught in schools.

History of Jihad

Scroll down on the left margin for the chronological jihad from 622 AD  to the present day
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 04:59:56 AM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #35 on: August 05, 2017, 07:41:10 AM »
Moderate Muslims (I call them inactive Muslims) do not drive Islam.
The radicals devout do.
The "moderates"  are the silent majority waiting to see which way it will turn.

Once the west fell to Islam (not an impossibility, see the EU) then watch all those moderates spring into action.
And run for your lives.

You will be assimilated. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."
Resistance is futile? Who is resisting? Only bigoted racist Islamophobes would.
They will be dealt with soon enough.

Well, Islam has been doing this for 14 centuries. This is no longer taught in schools.

History of Jihad

Scroll down on the left margin for the chronological jihad from 622 AD  to the present day

History cannot be ignored.  But neither should it control the future.  We are better than that.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 08:00:56 AM by Baruch »
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Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #36 on: August 05, 2017, 11:18:48 AM »
Baruch wrote:
Quote
History cannot be ignored.  But neither should it control the future.  We are better than that.
We can learn from it not to make the same mistakes again.
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #37 on: August 05, 2017, 11:45:54 AM »
Baruch wrote:We can learn from it not to make the same mistakes again.

Alas, the only thing we learn from history, is that we never learn from history.  I am a realist, you are an idealist.  You will die very disappointed with real people.  I struggle to learn to at least tolerate real people.  The only real problem in the world, is people.

So ... what can we learn from the 1930s ... that declaring war on Germany in 1933 or 1936 would have worked out better?  That is alternative history ... and no, we don't know it would have worked out better.  Germany nearly won, maybe they would have, on an earlier timeline.  I do think on a later timeline, they would have certainly won.  France and Britain guaranteeing Polish sovereignty, that they wouldn't do for Czechoslovakia ... worked out bad enough for everyone concerned.  If the US had intervened in 1936, maybe FDR would have lost his second term.  Without FDR, I don't think that Britain would have survived (Winston had a special relationship with FDR), and without Britain surviving, Germany would have won.  As it was, FDR was nearly couped in 1933, when they weren't trying to assassinate him.  Those were the same people who supported Hitler, from within Britain, aristocrats like Chamberlain.
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Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #38 on: August 05, 2017, 12:08:38 PM »
Well, for Germany, third time lucky.
Mama Merkel will win this time for sure. Probably without firing a shot.
Wrecking Europe is a work in progress for them.

Maybe you'll live long enough to watch Europe go up in flames. Again.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 12:13:02 PM by pr126 »
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Munch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #39 on: August 05, 2017, 12:10:32 PM »
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Of course the phrase don't become what you fight against can be applied to any side.

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2017, 02:26:43 PM »
THE CHALLENGE OF MODERNIZING ISLAM. PUTTING A HAPPY FACE ON EVIL. WHY THE REFORM OF ISLAM IS A FRAUD
Quote
Christine Douglass – Williams in her new book: The Challenge of Modernizing Islam does a grave disservice to all those who are fighting Islam. She creates in people’s minds the very dangerous illusion that there are 2 Islams: the wonderful, peaceful, moderate version followed by wonderful, peaceful, moderate Muslims and the Evil Islam of murder, rape, sex slavery, denigration of women, booty, terror, torture practiced by the evil ISIS Muslims and their ilk. Her book could be sub titled: The Challenge of Modernizing Nazism.

What Christine does not state is that Islam was reformed by Muhammad in 622AD – the greatest ideological reformation in mankind’s history. ALL Muslims today are Reform Muslims. http://www.godofmoralperfection.com/new-page-56.htm ISIS are reformed Muslims following exactly the Quranic teachings and Sunna of Muhammad. The Reformed Islam of 622 AD is the divine, timeless word of God as recorded in the Quran and can never be altered in any way. To change just one word is an act of apostasy – an act that must be punished by death. Christine and ALL the so called reformers have absolutely no authority to alter the Quran in any way. For “ What Freedom of religion Means to Muslims” go to: http://godofmoralperfection.com/new-page-44.htm


What 'Freedom of Religion' Means to Muslims?[/quote]
“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper

Offline Baruch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2017, 12:28:17 AM »
There are very few secular Muslims ... just as 100 years ago, there were very few secular Catholics.  We nearly didn't survive Catholic warmongering in the first half of the 20th century as it was.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #42 on: August 06, 2017, 04:01:27 AM »
Reformation of Islam in inevitable.  All religions eventually relax.  Islam is just a new one and will take time.  That doesn't mean they aren't a problem today.  But no more than the Christian fanatics in the days of the Inquisition.

All religions are crazy.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Munch

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #43 on: August 06, 2017, 04:17:54 AM »
Reformation of Islam in inevitable.  All religions eventually relax.  Islam is just a new one and will take time.  That doesn't mean they aren't a problem today.  But no more than the Christian fanatics in the days of the Inquisition.

All religions are crazy.

Well, it did start to reform, we've seen evidence of it decades ago in Afghanistan where they followed a Sufi form of it, where women could dress how they wished and it looked more like a western culture




And then the Taliban happened, and we see what the region has been like since.

I'd love for their country to get back on track with the rest of the modern world, they were on the path to going so. Its just a pity it had no  counter action to extremist fundamentalism. Its just sadly so engrained in their culture now its gonna take generations to bring them back into the modern era, if its still possible
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 04:20:26 AM by Munch »

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Islamic reformation possible?
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2017, 06:47:36 AM »
Reformation of Islam in inevitable.  All religions eventually relax.  Islam is just a new one and will take time.  That doesn't mean they aren't a problem today.  But no more than the Christian fanatics in the days of the Inquisition.

All religions are crazy.
You are basing your assumption on wishful thinking.


“True Ignorance is not the absence of knowledge but the refusal to acquire it.” - Karl Popper