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Islamic reformation possible?

Started by pr126, August 02, 2017, 11:15:07 AM

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Baruch

#120
Quote from: Cavebear on August 20, 2017, 11:49:50 AM
One of the newer inventions of writing were vowel symbols. They always existed in speech, of course, but were considered parts of consonants.  It seems the Greeks did that leap into writing, but it was late (rltvl spkng).

Yes, the Greeks were clever.  I don't think Egyptian had vowels either, just semi-consonants.  Egyptian is Hamitic, so part of the larger family that also includes Semitic.  In India, the same thing applies (they learned their alphabet from copying Old South Arabian and Aramaic.  The vowels were extra in all their writing too, but in modern times they compromised with a very complicated consonant/vowel system.  Compound consonants being the hardest.  And character writing (Chinese & Japanese) ... don't even have letters!  Consonantal writing was invented in the late Bronze Age by Canaanites.  The Greeks copied from Canaan (aka Lebanon).  The Etruscans and later the Latins copied from the Greeks.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Gawdzilla Sama

Quote from: pr126 on August 02, 2017, 11:15:07 AM
Yes, reformation is in progress now right before our eyes.
Reforming back to its original form. As Muhammad intended.

We can proudly proclaim that we had a hand in this.
Ditch the Shah and replace it with Khomeini.
No wonder they shout death to America.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNjae521qa8
Now reform the fucking Xtians. They need it as bad as anybody.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on August 20, 2017, 11:57:32 AM
Yes, the Greeks were clever.  I don't think Egyptian had vowels either, just semi-consonants.  Egyptian is Hamitic, so part of the larger family that also includes Semitic.  In India, the same thing applies (they learned their alphabet from copying Old South Arabian and Aramaic.  The vowels were extra in all their writing too, but in modern times they compromised with a very complicated consonant/vowel system.  Compound consonants being the hardest.  And character writing (Chinese & Japanese) ... don't even have letters!  Consonantal writing was invented in the late Bronze Age by Canaanites.  The Greeks copied from Canaan (aka Lebanon).  The Etruscans and later the Latins copied from the Greeks.

Well, the Romans took pretty much everything from the Etruscans, (wine, women, AND songs), though they got their gods from the Greeks (who didn't realize what was coming) and naval warfare from the Carthaginians (who also didn't realize what was coming). 

And by that I mean only that the Carthaginians showed the Romans that control of the Mediterranean was cool so they decided to copy THAT, and well, one conquest led to another as they say...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Baruch

Western success is based on Roman success.  Back to the gladiatorial show, fellow Roman.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Baruch on August 26, 2017, 08:17:38 AM
Western success is based on Roman success.  Back to the gladiatorial show, fellow Roman.

Actually, Europe is not very Roman except for language (which I do not discount).
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Shiranu

Quote from: pr126 on August 02, 2017, 11:15:07 AM
Yes, reformation is in progress now right before our eyes.
Reforming back to its original form. As Muhammad intended.

We can proudly proclaim that we had a hand in this.
Ditch the Shah and replace it with Khomeini.
No wonder they shout death to America.




Funny, the video leaves out why those "reformations", the revolutions, the "Islamification" happened, and what direction those countries were heading before they did...

Too inconvenient for the narrative, I suppose. If you acknowledge that it took outside forces putting massive resources into changing the direction Islam was going for their own political gains, then suddenly it makes this story that Islam is inherently evil a little bit more baseless.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Baruch

If the only way you can tell something is up, by putting it isolated on its own planet for 100 years, and watching it carefully, so that outside influences are nullified (aka controlled experiment of the ghetto type) ... then we will never be able to tell.  In modern times, nothing exists or develops in isolation.  It is a world culture, and world culture today, sucks.  In that way ... I really can't accept that Islam this or West that.  It is complex interaction.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

Quote from: Shiranu on August 26, 2017, 06:18:54 PM
Funny, the video leaves out why those "reformations", the revolutions, the "Islamification" happened, and what direction those countries were heading before they did...

Too inconvenient for the narrative, I suppose. If you acknowledge that it took outside forces putting massive resources into changing the direction Islam was going for their own political gains, then suddenly it makes this story that Islam is inherently evil a little bit more baseless.

Islam isn't any more inherently evil than Christianity or Judaism.  Just younger and rougher around the edges.  Mind you, I think they are all crazy superstitions...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Munch

Quote from: Cavebear on August 26, 2017, 06:27:06 PM
Islam isn't any more inherently evil than Christianity or Judaism.  Just younger and rougher around the edges.  Mind you, I think they are all crazy superstitions...

I'd say any cult that kills gay people because its scripture and representatives tell them to is pretty evil.
'Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners' - George Carlin

Cavebear

Quote from: Munch on August 31, 2017, 03:31:07 AM
I'd say any cult that kills gay people because its scripture and representatives tell them to is pretty evil.

Yeah, most religions...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

pr126

#130
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 03:42:08 AM
Yeah, most religions...
Sorry, Cavebear. I must protest.
Please list the religions (other than Islam) that presently kills gays.

I spotted another one:
QuoteIslam isn't any more inherently evil than Christianity or Judaism.
Please list the religions (other than Islam) that presently mass murders in the name of their gods.

Here is a clue:

Cavebear

Quote from: pr126 on August 31, 2017, 04:38:44 AM
Sorry, Cavebear. I must protest.
Please list the religions (other than Islam) that presently kills gays.

I spotted another one:Please list the religions (other than Islam) that presently mass murders in the name of their gods.

Here is a clue:


Christians, Hindus, African Tribal beliefs, mostly all of them.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

pr126

Christians? Are the crusades still happening?  Damn that (socialist) pope!

Cavebear

#133
Quote from: pr126 on August 31, 2017, 05:56:17 AM
Christians? Are the crusades still happening?  Damn that (socialist) pope!

The Crusades have never actually stopped.  "Be Christian or Die" is still the rule in many places.

• June 12, 2016 â€" A gunman opens fire in Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, killing 50 people and sending 53 to the hospital.

• Dec. 31, 2013 â€" Musab Masmari poured gasoline in a stairway at a decades-old gay nightclub and set it on fire. There were about 750 people in the Seattle club for a New Year's Eve celebration at the time, but the fire was extinguished with no injuries. An associate of his "reported that Masmari confided in him that he "burned a gay club" and that he did it because 'what these people are doing is wrong,'" an assistant U.S. attorney said in court documents. Masamari was sentenced to 10 years on federal arson charges.

Just a couple examples...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

pr126

#134
Quote from: Cavebear on August 31, 2017, 06:13:35 AM
The Crusades have never actually stopped.  "Be Christian or Die" is still the rule in many places.

• June 12, 2016 â€" A gunman opens fire in Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, killing 50 people and sending 53 to the hospital.

• Dec. 31, 2013 â€" Musab Masmari poured gasoline in a stairway at a decades-old gay nightclub and set it on fire. There were about 750 people in the Seattle club for a New Year's Eve celebration at the time, but the fire was extinguished with no injuries. An associate of his "reported that Masmari confided in him that he "burned a gay club" and that he did it because 'what these people are doing is wrong,'" an assistant U.S. attorney said in court documents. Masamari was sentenced to 10 years on federal arson charges.

Just a couple examples...

What if I told you that the two examples you mentioned were not Christians, but Muslims?

QuoteOmar Mir Seddique Mateen has been named as the gunman who killed 49 people and wounded 53 others at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Florida, CBS News reports.

The gunman was later killed by police after taking hostages at the LGBT club. The shooting, carried out with an AR-15 rifle and a handgun, is the deadliest in American history.

He pledged allegiance to ISIS, the so-called Islamic State, before the shooting, according to Congressman Adam Schiff, D-California.
Musab Masmari

Unless I have misunderstood you, and you knew it all along?