Author Topic: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty  (Read 417 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2017, 10:48:55 AM »
OK, I had to look him up.  Not bad, but I think where I disagree is about Natural Rights.   He seems to have thought Natural Rights being not god-given (of course) not also somehow not being human based.  I'm not sure where that goes.  I like his ideas about "legal fictions" though.

Bentham is the founder of Utilitarianism ... and when he died he had his body taxidermied and put on display at his college, as an object lesson ;-(

Utilitarians are the predecessors of the neb-liberals.  There is a calculus, of the greatest good for the greatest number ... but not one that Newton knew.  In America under consumerism, this has turned into Walmart sells cheaper, ignore the unemployed Americans who can't shop there anymore, they have to go to Family Dollar.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2017, 11:22:38 AM »
Bentham is the founder of Utilitarianism ... and when he died he had his body taxidermied and put on display at his college, as an object lesson ;-(

Utilitarians are the predecessors of the neb-liberals.  There is a calculus, of the greatest good for the greatest number ... but not one that Newton knew.  In America under consumerism, this has turned into Walmart sells cheaper, ignore the unemployed Americans who can't shop there anymore, they have to go to Family Dollar.

Your cynicism outdoes mine.  I tip me hat, Gov.

On the other hand, yer also full of it...

Anyway, I'm a Progressive, not a Liberal.  I like Workfare, public works to improve the access of information, travel, and health to all ;for my ultimate benefit.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2017, 12:54:28 PM »
Your cynicism outdoes mine.  I tip me hat, Gov.

On the other hand, yer also full of it...

Anyway, I'm a Progressive, not a Liberal.  I like Workfare, public works to improve the access of information, travel, and health to all ;for my ultimate benefit.

So you are a CCC FDR Democrat?  What time capsule did you crawl out of?  That might make the poor develop callouses!
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2017, 02:24:00 PM »
So you are a CCC FDR Democrat?  What time capsule did you crawl out of?  That might make the poor develop callouses!

I'm probably pretty damn close to FDR and CCC.  If I had to choose some leader to have again, FDR might well be it.  Can you name a better?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2017, 08:56:36 PM »
I'm probably pretty damn close to FDR and CCC.  If I had to choose some leader to have again, FDR might well be it.  Can you name a better?

Ironic ... because I was sure you were a Wendell Wilkie man ;-)
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Nietzsche -- on the value of suffering and difficulty
« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2017, 10:06:21 PM »
Ironic ... because I was sure you were a Wendell Wilkie man ;-)

Wendell Wilkie was a fine candidate but an uncertain leader.  One of those times when either candidate would have suited the country well generally in peacetime.  And had I been alive then, I don't know which I would have voted for.  In hindsight, FDR was better for the WWII challenge. 

Willkie had strengths.  He was courageous and somewhat independent, but worked well with legislators.  He would have worked well with industry to produce the armaments the US needed in the war.  Compared to many Presidents, he would have done better. 

But FDR's international experience and ability to manage other strong international leaders gives him the edge.  That doesn't mean Willkie couldn't have grown into the job.  He was a fast learner and an intelligent one.  But FDR was prepared with 2 terms experience in managing the government in 1940 and Willkie was not.

It was a time for experience AND talent, not just either.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!