Author Topic: Socialism in Venezuela.  (Read 459 times)

Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2017, 01:23:15 PM »
So socialism if done correctly is just fine.

But so far nobody worked it out how to do it “correctly”.

Socialism is communism lite. That didn’t work either. The USSR proved that.
It seems that capitalism, while not perfect, has the least of corpses littering the streets.

Communism doesn’t work.
Imagine that a surgeon earns the same as the janitor.
Where is the incentive to become a surgeon?

The idea comes from the French Revolution.  Some want Robespierre working overtime, forever.  Of course that is no way to run any society.  This is simply revenge fantasy.  I wish all our moderate socialist friends, would move to Cuba.  Get to work, harvesting sugar cane.  Of they can alway do a Lee Harvey Oswald ;-(
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Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2017, 01:25:09 PM »
There is something like ''Universal Basic Income''
It is being applied in Finlandia if i didnt hear wrong.
But this is not socialism of course.

Welfare isn't socialism either.  Everybody seems to want it, but nobody can define it.  Lenin was quite clear that the people cannot be allowed to lead, only the revolutionary cadre can do that ;-)

If there is a universal basic income, then all reproduction not licensed by the State has to stop ... you can't create indebtedness of society, without permission.
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Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2017, 01:25:52 PM »
So has capitalism. Should we abandon it as well?

Yes .. nothing works with ape men.  Back to the trees, and don't touch my banana.  Actual communism isn't high tech .. there is only primitive communism.  And the Apaches will kill you if you trespass.
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Offline Atheon

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2017, 01:57:26 PM »
And meanwhile, in Denmark and Finland, socialism is hopping along just dandily.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline AllPurposeAtheist

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2017, 02:44:41 PM »
Communism has produced about a hundred million corpses world wide.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, North Korea, Khmer Rouge, etc. Etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

I have seen some of the corpses in Budapest 1956 uprising.

You conveniently forget just how many corpses "capitalism"  has produced. Just because the owners of our nations don't want us to know how many people have died to protect their wealth doesn't mean they're any less dead.
All hail my new signature!

Admit it. You're secretly green with envy.

Offline Shiranu

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2017, 06:32:01 PM »
The irony of a capitalist talking about how evil socialism is never ceases to amaze me. The amount of ignorance and historical "see-no-evil" eye covering you have to do is staggering.

Latin America has been ravaged by capitalism; first by the colonial era, then by corporations. We have overthrown democratically elected leader after democratically elected leader to protect American business interests, leading to numerous civil wars and grinding poverty. Mexico spent centuries of having it's government in turmoil to protect the Spanish hacendado interest. We embargoed Cuba and destroyed their economy because they were socialist and we weren't. We put millions of people into sweat shops, including child labour, in places like El Salvador, Honduras, and across the sea Bangladesh. We put Americans out of work so we can make pants for dirt cheap elsewhere and pocket the savings, because capitalism values that over the well-being of human beings.

We overthrew Iran's democratic, secular government to protect English oil interests. There is this country, you may have heard of it, called India... it was once part of your little Union in case you have forgotten... that saw millions upon millions of people negatively impacted by capitalism run amok. We took millions of people as slaves all in the name of capitalism. We put our young tens of thousands of dollars into debt for their education because capitalism. We put our sick and elderly in debt in the name of turning a dollar for capitalism.

I'm sorry, but this list could literally go on for several more hours of why capitalism is just as evil, if not more evil, than socialism. The short of it, tl;dr version... you're still full of shit.


"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2017, 10:51:32 PM »
And meanwhile, in Denmark and Finland, socialism is hopping along just dandily.

Move there, before a billion Muslims do ;-)  Maybe you can sing "Don't cry for me, Argentina".  Americans aren't any good at geography anyway ;-(
« Last Edit: July 31, 2017, 10:54:14 PM by Baruch »
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Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2017, 10:53:39 PM »
You conveniently forget just how many corpses "capitalism"  has produced. Just because the owners of our nations don't want us to know how many people have died to protect their wealth doesn't mean they're any less dead.

You will die either way.  Dead is dead, and all die.  And yes, if you aren't a cute towel boy or a cuter French maid, your days are numbered.  If you like how rich people hire good help, just look at the Trump administration ;-)
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Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2017, 01:02:33 PM »
I've always found it odd that people are happy to accept a socialised military, yet think it's a bad system for everything else.
Winner of WitchSabrinas Best Advice Award 2012


We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real
tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. -Plato

Online Baruch

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2017, 01:11:55 PM »
I've always found it odd that people are happy to accept a socialised military, yet think it's a bad system for everything else.

If you are young and fit, join up .. but what people want is socialism without discipline.  They want free shit and cuter babes.  They can go ask their parents for that, if they are ever let out of the basement.

The military isn't perfect, but I think it is a lot better than the Intel guys (no, not the chip maker, unless you mean the RFID chip they want to stick us all with).
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Offline Shiranu

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2017, 06:05:32 PM »
I've always found it odd that people are happy to accept a socialised military, yet think it's a bad system for everything else.

Almost all the services we like from the government are socialism/socialistic, and almost all the things we hate aren't.

Odd coincidence, I'm sure. Also odd how those things that we like help us, and those that don't tend to lean closer to capitalism... which I think goes to the root of capitalism... sell people shit they don't need, and probably don't actually really want, for as much as you can bleed them for.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2017, 08:26:48 PM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2017, 07:42:41 PM »
OP, you're avatar is most appropriate.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2017, 07:44:00 PM »
Communism has produced about a hundred million corpses world wide.
Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, North Korea, Khmer Rouge, etc. Etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

I have seen some of the corpses in Budapest 1956 uprising.

Yeah, in picture books.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2017, 12:04:40 AM »
Yeah, in picture books.
No, I have been there at the time.
It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled. - Mark Twain

In times of universal deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell

Offline Shiranu

Re: Socialism in Venezuela.
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2017, 12:19:44 AM »
No, I have been there at the time.

I'll give pr this one; from what I know of him, he is an ex-Soviet bloc who moved to England, and hated the world ever since.

Of course, like most ex-Soviet bloc/Cubans, he conflates socialism with communism, without realising the country that was "great" was heavily socialistic. That is understandable though, and one that doesn't really get under my skin. Wrong, but not annoying.

Now that I think about it, it also explains why he is so anti-education.


Either way though, my point here and else where stands; it is a world view dominated by fear and hatred and not rational thought, and it's a shame that there was a society that created it in him and it's a shame that there is a society that exploits it for their own advantage today. Rather than attacking people like him, what we really need to attack are the institutions that further the myths that he was sold. 
« Last Edit: August 02, 2017, 12:21:30 AM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger