Author Topic: Crash Course: Mythology  (Read 681 times)

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 04:48:23 AM »
Well, there are known genetic components to it -- I carry several -- but no one can yet say with any authority that it's completely genetically driven.  Certainly us gays need you straights to continue breeding more gays.  That's a little out of our scope.  :D

You'll need to present that genetic evidence of "gayness".  To my knowledge there is none.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online Munch

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2017, 05:59:28 AM »
You'll need to present that genetic evidence of "gayness".  To my knowledge there is none.

Perhaps sexuality in its entirety is psychological, but if that were the case, why would men in a country like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan choose to be gay willingly knowing they be stoned to death for it? I'm sure they don't have much influencing them in such sexual roles like we do in western nations.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2017, 06:36:53 AM »
Perhaps sexuality in its entirety is psychological, but if that were the case, why would men in a country like Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan choose to be gay willingly knowing they be stoned to death for it? I'm sure they don't have much influencing them in such sexual roles like we do in western nations.

I think it is more neurological.  The brain makes connections in early development and it isn't subject to much change after that.  It's not any "fault"; it is just how you are made really early on.  You can't assign "fault to that.

Yeah, I'm adjusting my views the more I learn and think. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online Munch

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2017, 07:01:17 AM »
pretty good sum up, I do think the networking of the brains synapses cause a lot of what we are, but I also believe those aspect of ourselves can be molded and influenced as we grow up, based on any number of factors from external to internal. 

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2017, 07:06:00 AM »
pretty good sum up, I do think the networking of the brains synapses cause a lot of what we are, but I also believe those aspect of ourselves can be molded and influenced as we grow up, based on any number of factors from external to internal.

So are you saying you made a choice?  Evil grin...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline trdsf

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 10:24:28 AM »
You'll need to present that genetic evidence of "gayness".  To my knowledge there is none.
Oh, no, not genetic drivers that cause it.  Just markers that appear to correlate with it -- ring finger longer than index finger, gay uncle on maternal side, that sort of thing.  I know perfectly well that the genetic hypothesis is as yet an open area of research.

I expect that part of it is genetically driven.  But, like all things human, the causes are complex and interwoven, I'm sure.  I can guaran-damn-tee you that it's not something I sat down and deliberately chose one day.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 11:15:40 AM »
Oh, no, not genetic drivers that cause it.  Just markers that appear to correlate with it -- ring finger longer than index finger, gay uncle on maternal side, that sort of thing.

Easily falsifiable...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline trdsf

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 11:36:28 AM »
Easily falsifiable...
That's the whole point.  And that's why it's an open area of research.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 12:01:20 PM »
That's the whole point.  And that's why it's an open area of research.

Old gay tales, maybe?  My index finger is shorter than the ring, and I really enjoy the pleasures of the opposite sex...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Online Munch

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #24 on: September 28, 2017, 12:08:16 PM »
So are you saying you made a choice?  Evil grin...

yep I choose what to wear today, nothing at all.

But I didn't choose to get turned on by big hairy men, thats just what my brains telling me to enjoy, so I shall enjoy.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2017, 12:25:27 PM »
yep I choose what to wear today, nothing at all.

But I didn't choose to get turned on by big hairy men, thats just what my brains telling me to enjoy, so I shall enjoy.
Enjoy.  Just don't scare the pets.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline trdsf

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 12:44:40 PM »
Old gay tales, maybe?  My index finger is shorter than the ring, and I really enjoy the pleasures of the opposite sex...
It's a marker, not an absolute identifier.  There are also some biophysical markers I don't have -- I'm the eldest of my siblings, and the correlation is that gay men tend to have not just older siblings, but older brothers.  My uncle on my maternal side, who was also gay, was also the eldest of that sibling set.  There's a correlation with limb length -- gay men tend on average to have shorter limbs and smaller hands than straight men.  Mine are long and my hands are kind of vast.  I haven't had my brain measured so I don't know about those internal identifiers.

I also never once claimed any one of these things made me gay, and neither has anyone else.  They are a set of things that have been observed to correlate with homosexuality.  They are none of them, to the current state of research, linked causally.

And like Munch, I don't experience it as any sort of choice.  Show me pictures of a male fitness model and a female fitness model, and you'll have to tell me there's a picture of a female fitness model because I won't notice it on my own.  So I expect there's a genetic factor or factors involved, probably something that impacts the biochemistry and/or physiology of the brain; certainly that seems most plausible if not probable.  But what exactly that is, and what other factors are involved, hell, I don't know.  I'm content to let the researchers research.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Cavebear

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2017, 12:59:25 PM »
It's a marker, not an absolute identifier.  There are also some biophysical markers I don't have -- I'm the eldest of my siblings, and the correlation is that gay men tend to have not just older siblings, but older brothers.  My uncle on my maternal side, who was also gay, was also the eldest of that sibling set.  There's a correlation with limb length -- gay men tend on average to have shorter limbs and smaller hands than straight men.  Mine are long and my hands are kind of vast.  I haven't had my brain measured so I don't know about those internal identifiers.

I also never once claimed any one of these things made me gay, and neither has anyone else.  They are a set of things that have been observed to correlate with homosexuality.  They are none of them, to the current state of research, linked causally.

And like Munch, I don't experience it as any sort of choice.  Show me pictures of a male fitness model and a female fitness model, and you'll have to tell me there's a picture of a female fitness model because I won't notice it on my own.  So I expect there's a genetic factor or factors involved, probably something that impacts the biochemistry and/or physiology of the brain; certainly that seems most plausible if not probable.  But what exactly that is, and what other factors are involved, hell, I don't know.  I'm content to let the researchers research.

I meant no causality, just responding to some things you suggested.  I just mean that in my case, the unsubtantiated indicators didn't apply and I was curious about that.  And given your example of very fit male and female models, I would think, "Darn, I wish I looked like That Guy" because I would be (I assume) healthier.  And that woman would be be very attractive.

I'm not dumb enough to say 'gee that must be confusing"; you know what gets your attention and why.  But it does mean I guess I can admire both.  Which is interesting...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 01:05:05 PM »
Old gay tales, maybe?  My index finger is shorter than the ring, and I really enjoy the pleasures of the opposite sex...

You should have been more careful in wood shop ;-)  My god father was not careful enough in wood shop, lost one of his thumbs ;-(
שלום

Offline trdsf

Re: Crash Course: Mythology
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 01:07:43 PM »
I meant no causality, just responding to some things you suggested.  I just mean that in my case, the unsubtantiated indicators didn't apply and I was curious about that.  And given your example of very fit male and female models, I would think, "Darn, I wish I looked like That Guy" because I would be (I assume) healthier.  And that woman would be be very attractive.

I'm not dumb enough to say 'gee that must be confusing"; you know what gets your attention and why.  But it does mean I guess I can admire both.  Which is interesting...
It's all percents.  There's another one about counterclockwise hair whorls as opposed to clockwise.  Of those men whose hair whorls out, 8% have counterclockwise, but it's 23% among gay men, so it's still quite a minority within that minority and not a very common indicator either way.  I find it more statistically interesting than statistically meaningful.

It sounded to me like you were questioning whether these were markers at all; whether the confusion came from your writing or my reading, I don't know.  :)
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief