White House Bullshit

[Baruch]

I made no such assumption. I said you give him too much credit. Trump has shown himself to lack the ability to keep his mouth shut, even to keep himself out of legal trouble. He doesn't even have basic self-preservation skills.

That may be the whole point of the exercise ... non-survival ;-(

[Drew_2017]

Do you think it is wise to say to an unpredictable dictator with nuclear power, "If you don't do what I say, I will reign down fire on you, the likes of which you have never seen before?" If someone with more diplomatic sense were in charge, like Obama, he would be trying to diffuse the situation instead of escalate it. But if you want to bring up previous administrations and their tendencies to start stupid, avoidable wars, which one started the War on Terror, the never ending conflict with no positive results we're still stuck with today?

Obama had 8 years to work his diplomatic magic on Korea and China I'm not sure if it even slowed down NKO's drive to acquire nuclear weapons and now they have with a delivery system. Should we try another 8 years of strategic patience? At this point Trump is promising drastic retaliatory action if NKO acts first. Other presidents including Clinton and Obama have suggested the same thing. Should Trump pre-emptively attack NKO that would be a different matter. If they attack anywhere first they have been duly warned. Hopefully the Generals will grow a set and take him out if that happens. 

[Drew_2017]

That may be true--we are still not totally sure.  And it does not matter, for NK can and does bluster about, well, just about everything.  As does Trump.  So, when two crazies go at it, who know what could happen.  But I do find it interesting that the SK'ens are not all that bothered.  And I too, like Rachel!

I thoroughly enjoyed her melt down and others in reaction to Trump winning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oZpTzTL9cU 

[Blackleaf]

Obama had 8 years to work his diplomatic magic on Korea and China I'm not sure if it even slowed down NKO's drive to acquire nuclear weapons and now they have with a delivery system. Should we try another 8 years of strategic patience? At this point Trump is promising drastic retaliatory action if NKO acts first. Other presidents including Clinton and Obama have suggested the same thing. Should Trump pre-emptively attack NKO that would be a different matter. If they attack anywhere first they have been duly warned. Hopefully the Generals will grow a set and take him out if that happens.

You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.

[Baruch]

You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.

And that is why we must surrender to Hitler ... or is it Stalin ... it changes so often I can't keep up.  No, no miracles expected from political parties, from me.

Yes, innocents die ... it is what they were born to do.  Occasionally the malefactors get what is coming to them, but only if there are real dragons in Westeros.

[Cavebear]

I made no such assumption. I said you give him too much credit. Trump has shown himself to lack the ability to keep his mouth shut, even to keep himself out of legal trouble. He doesn't even have basic self-preservation skills.

Further, Trump hasn't the slightest understanding of basic government, negotiation, compromise, discussion, cooperation, and anything else that is not "all Trump".  I doubt he could pass an 8th grade history test.  The man is beyond ignorant of basic science facts and history

Which means he fits his 30% base PERFECTLY!

[Baruch]

Further, Trump hasn't the slightest understanding of basic government, negotiation, compromise, discussion, cooperation, and anything else that is not "all Trump".  I doubt he could pass an 8th grade history test.  The man is beyond ignorant of basic science facts and history

Which means he fits his 30% base PERFECTLY!

Don't blame his base.  I am not part of it.  Most people in the US aren't born with a silver spoon.  All elites are like this, back to Pharaoh (as played by Yul Brynner).

[Sylar]

As far as I'm concerned, MAD is still as relevant today as it was when the term was first coined. That is why nuclear deterrence works.

In the past two decades, US was successful in regime change in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya. In the past several decades, the US attempted and/or was successful at overthrowing democratically-elected governments in all of the following countries: Guatemala, Iran, Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, Lebanon, South Africa, Vietnam, Grenada, and Pakistan. They interfered in other countries like Egypt, Jordan, Somalia, Haiti, Dominican Republic, Cambodia, Laos, and the Phillipines, often wreaking havoc. A useful must-read about this subject is the following book by John Perkins, "Confessions of an Economic Hitman.

In summary, when a new leader of foreign nation ascends to power, the US sends economic hitmen to corrupt that leader by asking him to sell vital services like water, education, sewage, farming, etc. to the US in return for military and political protection. Real life examples include: Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Jordan. If the leader refuses, the US will send in the "Jackals", CIA agents who seek to cause civil unrest or outright assassinate the leader. Real life examples: Guatemala, Panama, Venezuela, and Iran. If the Jackals fail to depose of the leader through clandestine means, the US will send in its military to forcibly depose the leader. Real life examples: Iraq, Panama, and Vietnam.

Comrade Kill All Fun isn't about to become an addition to that list, hence nuclear weapons. Self-preservation is as good a motivator as any.

But if the goal was to eliminate North Korea's nuclear weapons program, Fat Man is failing miserably. The more he threatens Little Boy, the more Little Boy will hold onto his nuclear weapons program. It's simple, really. If you're threatening to kill me and remove me from power, I'll hold onto the one thing that will prevent you from doing so: nuclear weapons. Why? MAD, deterrence.

That is why diplomacy works best. There has never been a show of brinkmanship bigger than that of Khrushchev and Kennedy, and it all played out on TV and in the media, yet the resolution came as a result of backdoor diplomacy and it included removal of launch sites from Turkey and Italy.

If shit does hit the fan, though, I'm safe. Dennis Rodman lives a mere 20 mins from me. I just hope he communicated that to his Beloved Leader.

[Drew_2017]

You seem to demand miracle work from Democratic leaders, but are willing to make excuses for Republican incompetence. No, Obama did not bring world peace with his eight years in office, but he did do a lot of work to restore the world's respect for us...only for the current moron to bring us to a brand new low in a matter of months. A competent leader would know it is better not to go to war if it is at all possible. If we strike North Korea, innocent lives will be lost, and Kim Jong-un would probably not be caught in the blast anyway. Even if he has the balls to destroy Guam, he'll just go into hiding immediately afterward, and the only people to die in North Korea would be the people who have been suffering under his dictatorship for years.

I expect and hope and measure the performance of our leaders under two broad categories security and prosperity. I really don't care what political party is in office if they can get the job done. IMO we're worse off after 8 years of Obama. Bush gave us Obama, Obama (and Hillary) have given us Trump. I wasn't for Trump until it was a him or Hillary choice. I preferred Rubio or even Kasich over Trump. Now that he is president I'll evaluate him as any other president. Thus far I approve of some of his actions but he's inexperienced or just incompetent in other areas. Too early to call yet but he's fumbling and possibly squandering an opportunity to get things done.

[Sorginak]

Anyone who thought "it's him or her" clearly was not thinking when they voted for him.

[aitm]

From what I saw of the Obama era, many Americans never thought we would elect a black man and the repubs surely thought they would not. They could not recover from being rejected for a blackie and would not consider working with him at all. But that was not so much him being black as this is politics now, refusing to work together. But him being black and bowing to the tea party..working with the blackie was not an option.

[fencerider]

if Kasich or Rubio was president right now we would not be having this discussion right now. I could live with either one of them. Both are more intelligent than Trump, both are moderates not wackadoodles. Sorry Drew maybe you don't want to admit it, but Trump is not smart at all. He's like a high school QB: slow and dumb, but at the center of attention. Don't let it go to your head, but president Drew is a much better deal than president Donald.


Aside from all the crap that already happened, now we have this incident in Charlottsville. Fri night a group of American Nazis were marching in the streets carrying swaztikas and torches in an imitation of the first days of the holicaust. Trump can't bring himself to condemn what took place on Fri or Sat, but he was very quick to condemn a reporter that spoke negatively about him on Sun? .

[Baruch]

Anyone who thought "it's him or her" clearly was not thinking when they voted for him.

Anybody who is a drone for the R or D party ... is part of the problem.

[Baruch]

I expect and hope and measure the performance of our leaders under two broad categories security and prosperity. I really don't care what political party is in office if they can get the job done. IMO we're worse off after 8 years of Obama. Bush gave us Obama, Obama (and Hillary) have given us Trump. I wasn't for Trump until it was a him or Hillary choice. I preferred Rubio or even Kasich over Trump. Now that he is president I'll evaluate him as any other president. Thus far I approve of some of his actions but he's inexperienced or just incompetent in other areas. Too early to call yet but he's fumbling and possibly squandering an opportunity to get things done.

I used to be like you.  Never voted directly for any Bush family member, would give George W a chance to prove himself.  Did vote for Obama twice, gave him a chance, then a second chance after he blew the first chance.  I will only vote third party now.

[Baruch]

if Kasich or Rubio was president right now we would not be having this discussion right now. I could live with either one of them. Both are more intelligent than Trump, both are moderates not wackadoodles. Sorry Drew maybe you don't want to admit it, but Trump is not smart at all. He's like a high school QB: slow and dumb, but at the center of attention. Don't let it go to your head, but president Drew is a much better deal than president Donald.


Aside from all the crap that already happened, now we have this incident in Charlottsville. Fri night a group of American Nazis were marching in the streets carrying swaztikas and torches in an imitation of the first days of the holicaust. Trump can't bring himself to condemn what took place on Fri or Sat, but he was very quick to condemn a reporter that spoke negatively about him on Sun? .

Trump condemned both protestors (some are innocent, but not anti-Fa).  As he should given the results.  FEMA camps for both sides.  That is what is objected to ... that SJW aren't made heroes, though they did have the misfortune to play victims.  I know enough to stay away from KKK rallies.  This used to be a regular thing in my childhood (but not where I lived).  Instead we were one town over from the Watts riots.

SJW makes out like Trump was down there ... under a bed sheet, leading it.  But then SJW are racists.  But y'all who aren't Jewish ... have no reason to fear the Nazis.  You are the Commies.  You should wear your Che t-shirts.

Rubio?  We would have already invaded Venezuela.  Kasich ... maybe better.