Trump Bans Transgendered From Military

Started by Shiranu, July 26, 2017, 12:04:57 PM

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SGOS

A bit off topic, but this thread seemed like it was nearing conclusion.  I listed to NPR segment yesterday that said the Pakistan is now dealing with a controversy over Transsexuals.  This seems so weird to me that I've got to be repeating this with errors.  Apparently, Pakistan recognizes several different types of gender lifestyles.  I don't think they used the word homosexual, but I assume they are included in the classification, but then I tuned in a bit late.

Apparently, individuals with varying gender dispositions are not treated as pariahs in Pakistan culture, they are classified as "Class Three Genders," not to be confused with "third class citizens."  In fact, transsexuals are believed to have mystical abilities, and are revered, and paid to participate in weddings, births, and funerals where they perform special blessings in the ceremonies.  There is also a cultural practice where people are allowed to declare alternative genders, and then are assigned to a guru as an apprentice, and he pays the guru for his guidance monthly for the rest of his life.

The current controversy stems from a new movement in the transsexual community to avoid the guru crap, and just be who they are.  Obviously, this doesn't sit well with the gurus, who are now refusing to recognize the new "Class Three Genders" who refuse to participate in the current system.  I don't think the government has weighed in on the controversy, if they indeed have the power to settle the issue.

According to the person being interviewed a Class Three Gender person walking down the street would not raise an eyebrow in Pakistani culture, nor do such orientations cause the cultural problems they do in the US or other western cultures.  I've got to have this wrong.  Perhaps it only applies to cross dressers or cross genders, and not to gays in general.  In addition, just on a personal note, people in western culture are now identifying themselves in so many different ways, usually connected under the umbrella of LGBT, that I'm losing track of who's who and who's doing what.

Shiranu

#61
QuoteApparently, individuals with varying gender dispositions are not treated as pariahs in Pakistan culture, they are classified as "Class Three Genders," not to be confused with "third class citizens."  In fact, transsexuals are believed to have mystical abilities, and are revered, and paid to participate in weddings, births, and funerals where they perform special blessings in the ceremonies.  There is also a cultural practice where people are allowed to declare alternative genders, and then are assigned to a guru as an apprentice, and he pays the guru for his guidance monthly for the rest of his life.

In India they are called Hijra; I don't know if the term changes across the border.

There are alot of issues within the community and against the community, but the "nice" thing is they at least are recognized as a separate gender, with political and social representation. This is not just in India and Pakistan, either... it spreads across South-East Asia where there is generally at least 3 genders, if not sometimes a few more. You can also find that belief system in Native American cultures and in Africa as well. This idea of there only being two genders is not infact the global norm.

You don't have anything wrong; Hijra and other third-genders are generally treated like human beings in the South-East and not anything shocking. It's one of those awkward moments when the "barbarians" are more civilized than the "civilized".

All that being said though, being a third-gender in this places still really, really sucks. They are, as here, often the target of violence and repression and generally live in poverty (and often are sex workers). But whereas a certain poster or two here might see that as evidence that there is something "wrong" with them... I just cant take such a heartless and douche-bagged approach. I love India, but I am not going to act like Indian culture is the pinnacle of treating people fairly, and if we want to look at it that way then we can also argue that the Dalit (less derogatory term for "untouchables") are genetically inferiour because of their poverty and crime rates as well. It's conflating environment with nature.
"A little science distances you from God, but a lot of science brings you nearer to Him." - Louis Pasteur

Cavebear

If you can do the job, you should get the job...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Atheon

The "third sex" cultural phenomenon in India has spread over the centuries to Southeast Asia, and it is why "ladyboys" are a part of mainstream culture in Thailand.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Mermaid

WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life’s realities â€" all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. -TR

SGOS

Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.
Sex is dirty, filthy, and evil.  Except if you're married.  Then it has God's blessing.  Well, kind of a reluctant blessing, but it's not an automatic ticket to the fires of Hell.

Baruch

Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.

This was just on Christian Radio today ... are you defecting to theism? ;-)

There are only two human motivations ... food and sex.  A food fight at an orgy is the ideal human activity ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Cavebear

It is all just a Trump distraction from the important issues.  When his finances are questioned, he horks up transgender issues.  When he is challenged on staff issues, he points to old Hillary emails.  When Russian influences are raised, he insults immigrants.

Nothing Trump ever says is about actual issues and people who focus on the daily tweet are being lead astray.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Atheon

Quote from: Mermaid on July 30, 2017, 10:08:30 AM
WHY are we so freaking obsessed with sex and the thing that's going on between peoples' legs? Gah.

Because GAAAWWWWDDD hates sex. The penis and vagina were created by the devil!
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Baruch

Quote from: Atheon on August 03, 2017, 04:21:25 AM
Because GAAAWWWWDDD hates sex. The penis and vagina were created by the devil!

In Jewish Kabbalah, sex is obligatory, every Friday night, because G-d and his Shekhinah get it on every Friday night.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Hijiri Byakuren

*bans trans people on the basis of medical costs*

*leads a country that recently fought a $13,000,000,000,000 war*
Speak when you have something to say, not when you have to say something.

Sargon The Grape - My Youtube Channel

Cavebear

Quote from: Hijiri Byakuren on August 03, 2017, 10:06:29 AM
*bans trans people on the basis of medical costs*

*leads a country that recently fought a $13,000,000,000,000 war*

Someone on TV today said the transgender medical support costs were "less than a 1/10 of  100th of a percent" (I hope I got that right)  of their budget.  An opposing talking head did not deny it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

pr126

#72
I am late to the party, but what the hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uynApZJp1mk

Gawdzilla Sama

Blacks can't be good soldiers.
Filipinos can't be good soldiers.
Women can't be good soldiers.
Gays can't be good soldiers.
Trans can't be good soldiers.
Watch this space.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Mike Cl

Quote from: Gawdzilla Sama on August 04, 2017, 05:06:57 PM
Blacks can't be good soldiers.
Filipinos can't be good soldiers.
Women can't be good soldiers.
Gays can't be good soldiers.
Trans can't be good soldiers.
Watch this space.
Mexicans can't be good soldiers
Italians can't be good soldiers
French can't be good soldiers
What's the worlds smallest book?  The book of Italian war heroes.
Don't know if I want to watch this space or not.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?