Author Topic: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military  (Read 555 times)

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #30 on: July 27, 2017, 06:45:41 AM »
I was drafted.  This idea that the military is 'elite' is dangerous--and bullshit.  When I was drafted if you had a 'swinging dick' you got in.  In those days, women were not in combat and not drafted.  We don't need an elite military or a military that thinks it is not a part of the general country--that it is 'special' and not like the common man.  It needs to be made up of all slices of society--poor, all ethnic groups, all genders, all everything.  It needs to identify with the country and not feel it is apart from or different than the society it is supposed to protect.  A special military could think it is so special that it needs to run things.

DoD has to compete with CIA and FBI to run country ... it can't just walk in.  Bet they have dossiers on every public official, in or out of uniform.

Yes, Gen Patton was right ;-)  But aren't you just dating yourself?  Get a room!  I would draft 100% of the boys and girls.  If you wash out, lose your citizenship, ship you to Cuba for the free goodies (sarc).  But we decided to let 18 years olds drink, vote, and not slave for Uncle Sam.  I blame John Lennon.  From what I hear from old guys, the military is better now than it was when it was doped up on patrol in the Mekong Delta.  And I think the wags were right, if they had drafted all the college boys (including Cheney) then the war would have ended even sooner or not even started.  But that isn't the MIC plan, the plan is perpetual war for MIC profit (and CIA drugs).

BTW - I don't see this "we are the master race" stuff in the military I have been in for over 20 years now.  Very fine young people these, better than average ... with the usual percentage of screw ups.  But if you want Gen McArthur fantasies ... then get out your corn cob pipe and smoke it.  The last people who want a war are people in uniform.  Without politicians, all civilians, there are no wars.
שלום

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #31 on: July 27, 2017, 08:51:41 AM »
But aren't you just dating yourself?  Get a room!
Yes, I am.  Why just a couple of days ago, the three of us--me, myself and I--went to the movies.  We had one hell of a time!  Even shared the popcorn (after getting a second on the house to pay for it) and the coke (acola).  Afterward, we did get a room.  That was fun--almost always is.  (dedicated to Hennie Youngman--there I go again, dating myself)
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #32 on: July 27, 2017, 08:57:31 AM »
depressed people can’t get in
blind people can’t get in
chronically ill people can’t get in
felons can get in

The military is not a playground, it is not political. It is a force. A group with 40% suicide and at least 2 co-morbid mental illnesses should not be in the most powerful military on earth.

but nah, fuck reality;

"muh transphobic drumpf!"

Oh, you want to talk about reality?

Do you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them. Tell me, do you believe it is something to do with transgendered, something in their coding, that make them this way? Do you believe they are mentally ill, and that it has nothing to do with what happens in the world?

So you want to sit here and talk about reality, while shoving your fingers in your ears and refusing to actually facing it; it's shit like this that normalizes violence against transgendered people, that tells people and states that it's okay to discriminate against them. This is an intentional step backwards to solving those numbers you posted, and you cheer it on, because you want to find any excuse you can to shovel Trump's crusty balls down your throat. Don't fucking talk to me about what is or isn't political when you will defend the most heartless of shit all for one more taste of your politician's bullshit.

And the military is elite force? Get the fuck out of here. I am 99% sure I have spent more time around the military, and they are anything but, "The best of the best, the brightest of the brightest.". I think you can ask anyone here who has served in the military if your right, and they will all tell you that you are full of shit and the military has just as many morons as the next job. That is not to say there aren't great military people, but we cant pretend like a metric fuck-load of idiots, bigots and unfits join as well.

When you are advocating normalizing hatred and discrimination all to justify your president, and to stick it to the other guy, it might be time to take a good, hard look in the mirror at what you have become.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #33 on: July 27, 2017, 09:06:18 AM »
BTW - I don't see this "we are the master race" stuff in the military I have been in for over 20 years now.  Very fine young people these, better than average ... with the usual percentage of screw ups.  But if you want Gen McArthur fantasies ... then get out your corn cob pipe and smoke it.  The last people who want a war are people in uniform.  Without politicians, all civilians, there are no wars.

I served in the regular army, the active army reserve and national guard, and  I never saw evidence of belief in the 'master race' stuff, either.  But I was not referring to that, nor to the average soldier, either.  And I agree that the average grunt does not want war or to go to war.  What I was referring to was the senior generals.  They are the ones who set the tone and the policy for those under them--and if they get it in their minds that the military is the best of the best, that they should be running things and the military in general thinks so, then things could get ugly.  We don't need a military coup here. And remember the senior generals don't have to go to combat, but can pull the strings from behind the curtin.

As for DoD having intel on all of us--yes they do.  They battle all the other intel gathering agencies the US has for it--and even battle among themselves for it.  I knew that from experience in the Military Intelligence (Army) unit I was in with the regular Army.  My detachment had dozens and dozens of 4 drawer files filled with gathered intel on, well, you name it.  And we fought and schemed how to get more than the Navy, Air Force, NSA, FBI, and other Army detachments had; and all of that crap was forwarded up channels.  This was before the use of computers, so I can only imagine how much they have now. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #34 on: July 27, 2017, 09:28:37 AM »
Quote
"The Pentagon spends 5 times more on Viagra than it does on transition-related care."

Well then.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Offline Mermaid

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #35 on: July 27, 2017, 10:25:30 AM »
So which military do you serve with, and how recent is all your medical staff training?  I have been following the TG issue for decades my dear.  Can't say why I have.

Now if you want to disagree with the medical community on standards of care ... please address yourself to Mayo or Johns Hopkins.  This isn't a political issue.  But like I said, I am fine with TG people in the military.  They have secretly served for decades when it wasn't legal, same as gay service people.
Why the fuck are you talking to me like this? Did I ever claim knowledge of or service in the military? What the fuck are you talking about?
We are tied to the ocean. And when we go back to the sea, whether it is to sail or to watch - we are going back from whence we came.

John F. Kennedy

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #36 on: July 27, 2017, 11:48:23 AM »
Doesn't the US military have the biggest budget of... literally anything on earth?

It might have during peak spending on the wars in the middle east but not any more. At $938 billion Social Security alone is almost 35% more than the $696 billion DoD budget (including the separate line item for overseas contingency funding) for FY 2016. Social Security is also project to grow much faster than the DoD budget. By 2025 it will be nearly double DoD funding.

Currently the individual line items for Medicare and Medicaid are smaller than the DoD budget, but the two of them together exceed the DoD budget by almost 40%. They are projected to grow even faster than Social Security. Current projections have Medicare spending exceeding DoD spending in 2021. By then Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid together are expected to exceed DoD spending by more than 320%.

Save a life. Adopt a Greyhound.


Offline trdsf

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #37 on: July 27, 2017, 01:00:47 PM »
source?
Right here.

Also, as that article states, the Pentagon is saying there is no ban until they get formal advice from Asshole, not just a tweet.

It also rather stands to reason that being allowed to serve openly would alleviate at least one stressor leading to clinical depression.  So that doesn't stand either.  It's like the old no-gays policy that barred homosexuals from serving in the military because they were allegedly a security risk -- and why were they a security risk?  Because they were barred and if they sneaked in and served anyway, they'd be potentially subject to blackmail because they were barred.  That's the kind of circular reasoning that would befuddle the Great Wyrm Ouroboros..
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline PickelledEggs

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #38 on: July 27, 2017, 01:01:26 PM »
depressed people can’t get in

Didn't know that. Good news for me!
"Tell Pilate to release the files!!!" - Bill Hicks
"I have an open mind, but not so open that my brains will fall out" -James Randi
"One who truly hates himself cannot love, he cannot place his trust in another." - NGE

Offline Atheon

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #39 on: July 27, 2017, 01:08:33 PM »
Looks like the military is saying No to Trump.

(Since when did Trump's tweets become decrees? I think not.)

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/07/27/trump-transgender-military-ban-no-modification-241029?cmpid=sf
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #40 on: July 27, 2017, 01:46:28 PM »
“After consultation with my generals and military experts, please be advised that the United States government will not accept or allow transgender individuals to serve in any capacity in the U.S. military,” Mr. Trump wrote. “Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail.”

Translation: "Please stop talking about Russia!"
To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Sartre
Do Be Do Be Do - Sinatra

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #41 on: July 27, 2017, 06:18:44 PM »
Oh, you want to talk about reality?

Do you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them. Tell me, do you believe it is something to do with transgendered, something in their coding, that make them this way? Do you believe they are mentally ill, and that it has nothing to do with what happens in the world?

So you want to sit here and talk about reality, while shoving your fingers in your ears and refusing to actually facing it; it's shit like this that normalizes violence against transgendered people, that tells people and states that it's okay to discriminate against them. This is an intentional step backwards to solving those numbers you posted, and you cheer it on, because you want to find any excuse you can to shovel Trump's crusty balls down your throat. Don't fucking talk to me about what is or isn't political when you will defend the most heartless of shit all for one more taste of your politician's bullshit.

And the military is elite force? Get the fuck out of here. I am 99% sure I have spent more time around the military, and they are anything but, "The best of the best, the brightest of the brightest.". I think you can ask anyone here who has served in the military if your right, and they will all tell you that you are full of shit and the military has just as many morons as the next job. That is not to say there aren't great military people, but we cant pretend like a metric fuck-load of idiots, bigots and unfits join as well.

When you are advocating normalizing hatred and discrimination all to justify your president, and to stick it to the other guy, it might be time to take a good, hard look in the mirror at what you have become.

You are what you are.  You talk about smoking like an ex-smoker ;-)  Sorry, you just contradicted your earlier post ... on an emotional level.  But that is OK.
שלום

Online Baruch

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #42 on: July 27, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »
Why the fuck are you talking to me like this? Did I ever claim knowledge of or service in the military? What the fuck are you talking about?

Your posts are a bit cryptic.  If I misunderstood you, I apologize of course.
שלום

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #43 on: July 27, 2017, 09:00:58 PM »
Post removed because... just... wow.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 09:47:01 PM by Shiranu »
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"There are not two sides to bigotry and there are not two sides to hatred." - Arnold Schwarzenegger

Re: Trump Bans Transgendered From Military
« Reply #44 on: July 27, 2017, 11:46:58 PM »
Do you know why transgendered people have such high rates of depression? Of suicide? It's because of their much higher rate of violence against them. It's because of family and friend's refusing to accept them as human beings, of disowning them. It's from 1 in 5 transgendered employees facing work place discrimination with no consequences. It's from watching the news and seeing state after state, and now the federal government, legally discriminating against them.
Also, I'd like to point out that another group with an elevated rate of suicide (for similar reasons) is gay people, who can legally serve in the military.  If we took the argument that a group with an elevated rate of suicide can't serve in the military, then we'd have to exclude gays as well as trans people.