Author Topic: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts  (Read 610 times)

Offline trdsf

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2017, 12:16:03 PM »
The boy scouts organization probably loves him, so I doubt it.

Well, the BSA released a tepid statement that it was "wholly non-partisan and does not promote any one position, product, service, political candidate or philosophy" and inviting him was a "long-standing tradition and is in no way an endorsement of any political party or specific policies".

Which is rather a long way from "Asshole, can't you be a fucking adult for just half an hour?"
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2017, 12:45:55 PM »
Well, the BSA released a tepid statement that it was "wholly non-partisan and does not promote any one position, product, service, political candidate or philosophy" and inviting him was a "long-standing tradition and is in no way an endorsement of any political party or specific policies".

Which is rather a long way from "Asshole, can't you be a fucking adult for just half an hour?"

Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline trdsf

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2017, 12:53:32 PM »
Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
Pretty much.  As a gay atheist, I washed my hands of the BSA ages ago anyway.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline SGOS

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2017, 04:58:10 PM »
Or a PC way of saying we won't condemn what he said, but we want to act like we don't have responsibility for what was said to our scouts.
NPR just mentioned the BSA's (as in the BSA Administration's) deepest apology for the political content of Trump's speech.  I don't know what the political make up of the administration is, but I'm sure that there are not so conservative parents with sons in the BSA that thought the speech was inappropriate and voiced their concerns to the Jamboree.  There may be a wink-wink in the apology, but I can also imagine a scenario where the Jamboree's planners might have thought Trump would surely tone the partisanship down when addressing a group of non political teenagers of widely ideologically diverse families and values.  I can't myself imagine that Trump would have done anything differently, but then I have the advantage of hindsight in this situation.  He has made a career built around voicing the inappropriate.

Any national organization depends on the support of their membership, and I doubt that the administration would intentionally want to piss off a part of that membership, especially where there is nothing to be gained but an unnecessary controversy.  It would be the wrong move for an organization that has been struggling to keep up with modern culture in recent years.

Online Baruch

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2017, 06:14:19 PM »
I forgot about merit badges and special pins like 1st class, 2nd class, 3rd class.  The real scout nerds accumulated merit badges, and I vaguely remember something about three arrow point badges that designated some very special status. Near the end of the Scout Achievement hierarchy, you could eventually ascend to the esteemed level of Eagle Scout.  By then, you had so many decorations you actually had to buy a special sash worn diagonally across your chest.  Eagle Scouts were rare, like Generals or Admirals.   I only knew one, a distant acquaintance that my father instructed me to respect with awe.  When he put on his uniform with all the high level accessories, he looked like Baron Von Hoffschloffer at an important Affair of State.

There was one little thing about scouting that I cherished.  In retrospect it was not special, but as a 12 year old, it meant something special to me.  It was the Boy Scout Handbook, required of every Scout, just as every Christian needs his own Bible.  Everything about scouting was in the Handbook, the pledges, salute and secret handshake, the codes of honor, etc.   Most seemed unimportant, but much of it was devoted to outdoor skills, fire building, tracking, hiding.  There were diagrams of little campfire set ups made from forked sticks to hold the little pot from your Boy Scout Mess Kit.  Clever hints thought up by some would be backwoodsman in a special office of the Boy Scouts of America Headquarters, probably in a special wing of the Pentagon.  Actually, I can't remember where Headquarters was.

Much of it is probably obsolete now.  I don't think it would be environmentally friendly to built actual campfires with the modern availability of gas powered camp stoves.  Constructing soft beds of pine boughs to spread your sleeping bag out on destroys campsites, and hopefully, the manual doesn't include any drawings of the camp hatchet, which had secretly inspired every Boy Scout to chop down a tree when the Scout Master was in the outhouse.  But the Boy Scout handbook was my "go to" reference when I wanted to fantasize about going hiking and camping.

Much of this was inspired by a famous Wild West American ...Frederick Russell Burnham, who inspired Robert Baden-Powell (who established the Scouts in GB).  But I think that much of the pre-history goes back to the story of Robinson Crusoe by Daniel Defoe ... who was inspired by the real life Alexander Selkirk.  See the Youtube on Alexander Selkirk, and see what it is like post-apocalypse.  A bit about his goats, isn't PC.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 06:16:40 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2017, 07:46:40 PM »
NPR just mentioned the BSA's (as in the BSA Administration's) deepest apology for the political content of Trump's speech.  I don't know what the political make up of the administration is, but I'm sure that there are not so conservative parents with sons in the BSA that thought the speech was inappropriate and voiced their concerns to the Jamboree.  There may be a wink-wink in the apology, but I can also imagine a scenario where the Jamboree's planners might have thought Trump would surely tone the partisanship down when addressing a group of non political teenagers of widely ideologically diverse families and values.  I can't myself imagine that Trump would have done anything differently, but then I have the advantage of hindsight in this situation.  He has made a career built around voicing the inappropriate.

Any national organization depends on the support of their membership, and I doubt that the administration would intentionally want to piss off a part of that membership, especially where there is nothing to be gained but an unnecessary controversy.  It would be the wrong move for an organization that has been struggling to keep up with modern culture in recent years.

Interesting. Trump just seems like someone the Boy Scouts would love.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline SGOS

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2017, 07:49:22 PM »
Pretty much.  As a gay atheist, I washed my hands of the BSA ages ago anyway.
When I was around scouting age, perhaps I was out of it by then, I remember some flap in Chicago, where a young teenager, probably 11 to 13 years old, was either kicked out or denied membership in the Scouts for being an atheist.  This kid did a short informal speech in a news clip on a Chicago station, where he declared  atheists to be "good people."  I called myself a Christian at the time, and I remember thinking he was a brave kid to proclaim himself an atheist in public.  I imagined grownups throwing shoes at their TVs.  I didn't have a negative reaction to him though.  But I thought to myself, "Maybe some atheists are good people."  I only knew adults who were atheists at the time, and they were both very likeable, as far as I was concerned.  They were both generous and considerate of others as far as I could tell.  My world expanded just a little bit watching that kid.

Offline SGOS

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2017, 08:00:10 PM »
Interesting. Trump just seems like someone the Boy Scouts would love.
Parts of the administration, for sure.  I don't know if the Jamboree is held in different locations every year, but things like that are often organized and planned under loose administration from above.  The people doing the planning may be local volunteers that do it just once, and they may not be as cognizant of potential problems and let something like that slip by because it didn't strike them as potentially damaging.  Someplace, I heard that the Scouts invite the president every year.  I'm not sure if one usually shows up or not.  They may have assumed Trump wouldn't show anyway.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2017, 02:38:03 AM »
Boy Scouts are inherently geared (and deliberately trained) toward authoritarian adults.  I know; I was one.  I broke free, but most don't.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline SGOS

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2017, 07:54:10 AM »
Boy Scouts are inherently geared (and deliberately trained) toward authoritarian adults.
I can't speak for every scout.  But my Scout Master was ex Army, a radioman, who may have been compensating for his lack of advancement by leading scouts.  He taught us the Morse Code, and every week, we would go outside and march on the playground.  We would shout out Cadence ditties and do column left/column right and end up with little squads of scouts heading around the playground in every direction, eventually merging back together into a precision unit and creating a sense of completion.  All done through the use of simple commands, followed by willing scouts.

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #25 on: July 29, 2017, 01:04:39 AM »
I can't speak for every scout.  But my Scout Master was ex Army, a radioman, who may have been compensating for his lack of advancement by leading scouts.  He taught us the Morse Code, and every week, we would go outside and march on the playground.  We would shout out Cadence ditties and do column left/column right and end up with little squads of scouts heading around the playground in every direction, eventually merging back together into a precision unit and creating a sense of completion.  All done through the use of simple commands, followed by willing scouts.

Are you trying to make an analogy with Trump? - A whole bunch of people scurrying about to follow his orders and end up in a cohesive force. You win the grand prize if that turns out to be true.

Personally I haven't yet seen Trump show the genius of a dog turd. It would be nice if he suddenly starting acting like I dunno.... like he's the fn Pres of the U.S. but he probably isn't capable of such a feat.
Would you like to play with my invisible friend? HE can give you anything that you want. All you have to do is ask HIM

Online Baruch

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2017, 12:09:47 AM »
Trump already did, he killed a few folks in Syria.  He probably already proved his manhood with the owl statue the Bohemian Grove people get involved with.  When Trump did that a few months back, you could hear all the dicks in the neo-con pants making sounds as they got hard against their pants ... even from where I was.

Obama was the last Willy Wonka in the White House.  Y'all loved his shuck and jive.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Trump's Speech to the Boy Scouts
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2017, 01:26:57 AM »
Let me put it another way.  Boy Scouts are taught to respect authority, accept instruction by older males, usually meeting in a church (though some don't), and a Scout is...


    Trustworthy,
    Loyal,
    Helpful,
    Friendly,
    Courteous,
    Kind,
    Obedient,
    Cheerful,
    Thrifty,
    Brave,
    Clean,
    and Reverent.

Several of those, especially "reverent" are emphasized in Scouting.  I stopped at Life badge myself, because the Scout Leaders were members of the church we met at and insisted that, to get to Eagle Scout" you had to be REALLY reverent and serve the church.  That WAS in 1968, but I haven't seen much that changed.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950