Author Topic: Life on earth  (Read 414 times)

Online Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2017, 06:36:50 AM »
A theory being falsifiable is a good thing. It means there is a way to test it to see if its right.

Theism isn't falsifiable, that is why it is right ;-)

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Tongue and cheek? I think the existence of life is by design the more I see the myriad of conditions and properties necessary to get it going which is why I list the existence of life as a fact in favor of theism. The other alternative is mindless forces without plan or intention to cause life or planets or stars got things 'just right' by an act of serendipity. Pick your poison.

I do ... but your primitive notion of time ... is holding you back.  Your theism is Biblical.  And the more I see of Americans, the more I believe in mindless forces, if not mindless people.
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Online Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2017, 06:39:46 AM »
Yes, but the actual "how it happens" magic happened 6000 years ago.  At the time, we didn't even have recorded history, and man wouldn't even write for another 2000 years, and when he finally did, if he wanted to write "goat" he just drew a picture of a goat.  If he wanted to write horse, he could also draw a goat, because they are similar.  If he wanted to write "sex", he drew a picture of a goat, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

This new "where it all came from" stuff is just something that happened in the last 200 years, and not everyone believes it anyway.  So which one are you going to believe?  Stuff that is only 200 years old, and gathered by guys that went to college, and we all know how dumb those college guys can be.  Or would you rather believe stuff that's 6000 years old, and discovered by guys that herded goats, couldn't read or write, but were already drawing pictures of goats?.  Show me a college kid that can draw a good goat, and I might think he's good for something.  Until then, I'm sticking with the stuff that's been around a lot longer.

The last "hunter/gatherers" retired in my lifetime.  People who know how to survive without an iPhone have been around for over 200,000 years ... and mindless consumerism has made them obsolete.  But when the shit hits the fan, nobody survives, because nobody can now make stone tools or knows how to hunt and gather properly.  You have to spend a lifetime at it, and be raised to it by your parents.  Progress?
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Re: Life on earth
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2017, 09:26:36 AM »
Nobody can piss you off unless you first give them permission.
I do agree! 

Nothing pisses off a guy who is trying to piss you off more,  than not getting pissed off yourself.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2017, 12:37:55 PM »
All theories of Earth formation are falsifiable
All theories are falsifiable.  If there's no method of falsification, the best it can be is an hypothesis.  To be a theory, there has to be a method of falsification.  (Which is one reason that theism isn't a theory.)

(Falsifiable doesn't mean that it's a guess, or that it's been falsified, just that if the thing in the method of falsification were found, the theory would be shown to be false.  Any theory that's still accepted hasn't yet been shown to be false - but there's still a method of falsifying it IF that thing were ever found, proving the theory false.  (Don't bet on it though.  Anything that's reached the level of scientific theory has already been so thoroughly tested that it's probably not possible to falsify it.  The last theory to be falsified was Newton's, by Einstein in 1905, and that's only false under extreme conditions - that Newton had no idea could exist.  So it took about 300 years to find one tiny little fault in the last theory falsified.  Don't hold your breath.)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 12:43:04 PM by Colanth »
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2017, 01:04:56 PM »
All theories are falsifiable.  If there's no method of falsification, the best it can be is an hypothesis.  To be a theory, there has to be a method of falsification.  (Which is one reason that theism isn't a theory.)

(Falsifiable doesn't mean that it's a guess, or that it's been falsified, just that if the thing in the method of falsification were found, the theory would be shown to be false.  Any theory that's still accepted hasn't yet been shown to be false - but there's still a method of falsifying it IF that thing were ever found, proving the theory false.  (Don't bet on it though.  Anything that's reached the level of scientific theory has already been so thoroughly tested that it's probably not possible to falsify it.  The last theory to be falsified was Newton's, by Einstein in 1905, and that's only false under extreme conditions - that Newton had no idea could exist.  So it took about 300 years to find one tiny little fault in the last theory falsified.  Don't hold your breath.)
I hate the way the word 'theory' is used.  Most of the time it is used in a phrase like--'It's just a theory that..................'.  They use it as though a theory is just a good guess or the best guess.  They really mean hypothesis and not theory.  Usually, they don't want to hear it.  So, when a person says that evolution is just a theory and look at you like--'see, I just shot that down!'; they have no clue that yes, evolution is a theory, which means that it is factual and not just a hypothesis.  Stupid just cannot be fixed!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Cavebear

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2017, 03:56:31 AM »
Drew and the other Theists never give up trying to get a wedge in at science. 

I suppose partly it is that they can't conceive of any system of thought that isn't revelatory, partly that they don't understand facts, partly because they can't accept Natural Selection, and partly that they don't accept deep time.

More sadness to them, but I am beyond trying to spend hours explaining it to them.  If they want to learn about it, they can take a high school course about it.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2017, 07:20:21 AM »
I do agree! 

Nothing pisses off a guy who is trying to piss you off more,  than not getting pissed off yourself.
And science does that to religion. Mostly. Religious keep trying to make it a contest between science and blind belief. Not in the same room, not in the same building, not in the same world.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2017, 04:41:53 PM »
I hate the way the word 'theory' is used.  Most of the time it is used in a phrase like--'It's just a theory that..................'.  They use it as though a theory is just a good guess or the best guess.  They really mean hypothesis
Not even.  An hypothesis is an idea with a limited number of facts backing it up.  They mean "just a guess, with no facts".

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So, when a person says that evolution is just a theory and look at you like--'see, I just shot that down!'; they have no clue that yes, evolution is a theory, which means that it is factual and not just a hypothesis.
Well, no.  Evolution itself is an observation that's been made many times (hundreds at least, maybe thousands - I don't read all the research), so it is a fact (as much as we can trust reality to be real).

There are "theories of evolution" (which should have been named "theories about evolution"), that try to explain various aspects of it.  Like the Aquatic Ape Theory (which, since Elaine is dead, has no one supporting it), the Punctuated Equilibrium theory (and as much as I respect Gould [I never met Eldredge], I still think it's an artifact of fossilization), etc.

But evolution is a fact.

(It has to be this long.  We used to say "Evolution is both a fact and a theory" and the Bible thumpers would jump on that and say, "See?  Even you agree that it's just a theory."  Or people refer to The Theory of Evolution, as if Darwin's ideas were the only thing ever written about evolution, or that Darwin invented it.  [The first time it was used in the biological sense, as far as I know, was  about 1805, when Darwin was 4.  It could have been used that way before that, but I have no reference to any earlier usage.]  But just "Stupid just cannot be fixed!", while absolutely true, doesn't hit them with a big enough baseball bat.)
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2017, 05:04:33 PM »
Not even.  An hypothesis is an idea with a limited number of facts backing it up.  They mean "just a guess, with no facts".
Well, no.  Evolution itself is an observation that's been made many times (hundreds at least, maybe thousands - I don't read all the research), so it is a fact (as much as we can trust reality to be real).

There are "theories of evolution" (which should have been named "theories about evolution"), that try to explain various aspects of it.  Like the Aquatic Ape Theory (which, since Elaine is dead, has no one supporting it), the Punctuated Equilibrium theory (and as much as I respect Gould [I never met Eldredge], I still think it's an artifact of fossilization), etc.

But evolution is a fact.

(It has to be this long.  We used to say "Evolution is both a fact and a theory" and the Bible thumpers would jump on that and say, "See?  Even you agree that it's just a theory."  Or people refer to The Theory of Evolution, as if Darwin's ideas were the only thing ever written about evolution, or that Darwin invented it.  [The first time it was used in the biological sense, as far as I know, was  about 1805, when Darwin was 4.  It could have been used that way before that, but I have no reference to any earlier usage.]  But just "Stupid just cannot be fixed!", while absolutely true, doesn't hit them with a big enough baseball bat.)

Your argument about theory and hypothesis is one I have often had to make.  Well put!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead

Online Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2017, 05:14:39 PM »
I hate the way the word 'theory' is used.  Most of the time it is used in a phrase like--'It's just a theory that..................'.  They use it as though a theory is just a good guess or the best guess.  They really mean hypothesis and not theory.  Usually, they don't want to hear it.  So, when a person says that evolution is just a theory and look at you like--'see, I just shot that down!'; they have no clue that yes, evolution is a theory, which means that it is factual and not just a hypothesis.  Stupid just cannot be fixed!

There is a widespread distrust of experts, including lawyers and doctors.  This extends to climate change denial (not the specific causes, just the actual changes) and other wing-nuttery like Flat Earth and No Moon Landing.  Ever see the movie Agora?  The lower IQ folks will eventually find us and exterminate us, and burn all the damn books.
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Re: Life on earth
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2017, 05:41:08 PM »
There is a widespread distrust of experts, including lawyers and doctors.  This extends to climate change denial (not the specific causes, just the actual changes) and other wing-nuttery like Flat Earth and No Moon Landing.  Ever see the movie Agora?  The lower IQ folks will eventually find us and exterminate us, and burn all the damn books.
Yeah--the US has long been anti-intellectual. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Online Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2017, 10:59:40 AM »
Yeah--the US has long been anti-intellectual.

Temporarily smart because of all the Jewish refugees in the 1930s ... to bad there isn't another Hitler to scare more Jewish people to the US.
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Re: Life on earth
« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2017, 11:23:30 AM »
Temporarily smart because of all the Jewish refugees in the 1930s ... to bad there isn't another Hitler to scare more Jewish people to the US.
As happened during WW II, we'd refuse to take them.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2017, 12:05:21 PM »
I hate the way the word 'theory' is used.  Most of the time it is used in a phrase like--'It's just a theory that..................'.  They use it as though a theory is just a good guess or the best guess.
Yeah.  I think I lot of it is the context people hear the word theory.  Much of the time, it's either as a conspiracy theory or scientific theory.  People see a similar word and assume there's a similar process behind it.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

Online Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2017, 09:10:01 PM »
Ah, but the CIA invented all the conspiracy theories (the UFO scare in particular) to cover up what they are really doing.
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