Author Topic: Life on earth  (Read 418 times)

Online Drew_2017 (OP)

Life on earth
« on: July 20, 2017, 03:23:41 PM »
I watched a show last night about the link between rocks (minerals and so forth) and theories about how life began. One of the interesting notes is that water seems to have been on earth much sooner than thought. According to the study water appears as soon as 4.3 billion years. They didn't explore any further what that might mean but its a much different finding than expected. It also means the conditions for life occurred much sooner than thought. Here is an article that states the same thing...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/10/141030-starstruck-earth-water-origin-vesta-science/

The water that makes Earth a majestic blue marble was here from the time of our planet's birth, according to a new study of ancient meteorites, scientists reported Thursday.

Where do the oceans come from? The study headed by Adam Sarafian of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution (WHOI) in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, found that our seas may have arrived much earlier on our planet than previously thought.

The study pushes back the clock on the origin of Earth's water by hundreds of millions of years, to around 4.6 billion years ago, when all the worlds of the inner solar system were still forming.


I think this finding falsifies earlier ideas about how the earth formed. Even though the show was about the link between rocks and life it still remains a mystery how life began.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 06:13:11 PM »
Hydrogen3. It's in comets, it's in the asteroids. The percentage of H3 in the water in asteroids is a very good match for the percentage here on Earth. The comets have less H3.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 06:29:22 PM »
All theories of Earth formation are falsifiable, unless you have a "selfie" from 4.6 billion years ago ;-)

Unless you want to claim that Jesus on a space dinosaur brought water here, to make things "just right" like Goldilocks and the porridge.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2017, 06:35:28 PM »
Hydrogen3. It's in comets, it's in the asteroids. The percentage of H3 in the water in asteroids is a very good match for the percentage here on Earth. The comets have less H3.

Comets of today, aren't the comets of 4.6 billion years ago.  I would split the difference and say that asteroids and comets were both responsible.  There was plenty of hydrogen in the original solar cloud ... but not so much oxygen.  We can actually see new stars forming in the Orion nebula.  An isotope analysis of that would be interesting, even if not all nebulas are created equal.
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Re: Life on earth
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 06:52:25 PM »
Comets of today, aren't the comets of 4.6 billion years ago.  I would split the difference and say that asteroids and comets were both responsible.  There was plenty of hydrogen in the original solar cloud ... but not so much oxygen.  We can actually see new stars forming in the Orion nebula.  An isotope analysis of that would be interesting, even if not all nebulas are created equal.
And that's why you aren't a scientist.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2017, 07:15:42 PM »
And that's why you aren't a scientist.

Yeah, if I were, I could make un-empirical claims thru a voice decoder, like Dr Hawking ;-)

So, you were here, 4.6 billion years ago, and did a complete analysis of the solar cloud?  Amazing ... more amazing than even Drich! ;-))  Your satire kills me.
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Online Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2017, 08:00:08 PM »
Hydrogen3. It's in comets, it's in the asteroids. The percentage of H3 in the water in asteroids is a very good match for the percentage here on Earth. The comets have less H3.

According to the article they still think that contributed to it.

Vestal Waters

The team's measurements show that meteorites from Vesta have the same chemistry as the carbonaceous chondrites and rocks found on Earth. This means that carbonaceous chondrites are the most likely common source of water.

"The study shows that Earth's water most likely accreted at the same time as the rock," said Marschall.

"The planet formed as a wet planet with water on the surface."

While the authors are not ruling out that some of the water that covers 70 percent of Earth today may have arrived later, their findings suggest that there was enough already here for life to have begun earlier than thought.


I'm not advocating any position on this I just hadn't heard of it until last night.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2017, 08:12:17 PM »
That's fine, you watched the same show I did. I just have seen more shows. And went to classes at Purdue on this shit. I like it.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Online Drew_2017 (OP)

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2017, 08:14:18 PM »
All theories of Earth formation are falsifiable, unless you have a "selfie" from 4.6 billion years ago ;-)

A theory being falsifiable is a good thing. It means there is a way to test it to see if its right.

Quote
Unless you want to claim that Jesus on a space dinosaur brought water here, to make things "just right" like Goldilocks and the porridge.


Tongue and cheek? I think the existence of life is by design the more I see the myriad of conditions and properties necessary to get it going which is why I list the existence of life as a fact in favor of theism. The other alternative is mindless forces without plan or intention to cause life or planets or stars got things 'just right' by an act of serendipity. Pick your poison. 

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2017, 08:34:24 PM »
You're not even trying any more.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2017, 08:37:09 PM »
You're not even trying any more.
Actually, Gawdzilla, he is very trying!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline aitm

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2017, 08:53:57 PM »
and life it still remains a mystery how life began.

aaannnnddd  we go from that to "magic". Meh, I'll stick with people at least trying to understand the universe instead of blindly worshipping an evil god that demands babies be killed and little girls be raped and then suggests it is a "moral" god.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

Offline SGOS

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2017, 06:02:27 AM »
aaannnnddd  we go from that to "magic". Meh, I'll stick with people at least trying to understand the universe instead of blindly worshipping...
Yes, but the actual "how it happens" magic happened 6000 years ago.  At the time, we didn't even have recorded history, and man wouldn't even write for another 2000 years, and when he finally did, if he wanted to write "goat" he just drew a picture of a goat.  If he wanted to write horse, he could also draw a goat, because they are similar.  If he wanted to write "sex", he drew a picture of a goat, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it.

This new "where it all came from" stuff is just something that happened in the last 200 years, and not everyone believes it anyway.  So which one are you going to believe?  Stuff that is only 200 years old, and gathered by guys that went to college, and we all know how dumb those college guys can be.  Or would you rather believe stuff that's 6000 years old, and discovered by guys that herded goats, couldn't read or write, but were already drawing pictures of goats?.  Show me a college kid that can draw a good goat, and I might think he's good for something.  Until then, I'm sticking with the stuff that's been around a lot longer.

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2017, 06:19:31 AM »
Actually, Gawdzilla, he is very trying!
Nobody can piss you off unless you first give them permission.
We 'new atheists' have a reputation for being militant, but make no mistake  we didn't start this war. If you want to place blame put it on the the religious zealots who have been poisoning the minds of the  young for a long long time."
PZ Myers

Offline Baruch

Re: Life on earth
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2017, 06:34:19 AM »
Nobody can piss you off unless you first give them permission.

Potty frequently, just in case!
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