Author Topic: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?  (Read 328 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2017, 01:11:15 PM »
To be useful in Islam is to fight in the way of Allah, slay and be slain for theirs shall be the garden
 Quran 9:111

As would any patriot.  As would any theocrat from the time of Oliver Cromwell.
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Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2017, 01:39:01 PM »
yes yes , that is true . die for Allah . we call them cannon fodder. Yes become Muslim please, give him the explosive belt , send him to blow himself up

one incident in Arabia … A British soldier would not abandon his cannon . the Arabs were telling him flee with us and fight another day .they couldn’t understand that British soldier code . To do or die

now now we do need Christians in Ramadan . Muslims fasting , incapacitated . position bunch of Christians in government offices to do the work while fasting Muslim sleeps . no no you can’t convert to islam . we need you to stay Christian
actually if you go by the quran conversion to Islam is not possible . sorry allah says you can't

Offline Cavebear

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2017, 01:50:41 PM »
To be useful in Islam is to fight in the way of Allah, slay and be slain for theirs shall be the garden
 Quran 9:111

Jihad, right?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 01:59:08 PM »
Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,
Qur'an 4:95
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Cavebear

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 02:07:00 PM »
Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,
Qur'an 4:95

Wow the Koran is more repetitive than the christian text?  "Say it once and then say it again reversed"...  Dumber than I knew.

And that "special reward" is...?  Be honest...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2017, 02:24:30 PM »
Allah's celestial whore house.
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Offline Cavebear

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2017, 02:35:02 PM »
Allah's celestial whore house.

Yep.  And who are the whores?  All the women to you?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline pr126 (OP)

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2017, 11:50:08 PM »
There is another bonus. The sahid also gets 70 of his relatives to paradise (intercession).

Families also get stipends by the state. (your taxes at work.)

Case in point:

http://www.news.com.au/world/breaking-news/jakarta-woman-defends-suicide-terror-plot/news-story/7b2fa6bc13f007b9fc5dc693aeddcd72

Quote
A woman alleged to be Indonesia's first would-be suicide bomber has told her trial that she believed the terror attack would help her parents "enter heaven".
Dian Yulia Novi, along with six others including her husband, is accused of plotting a suicide-bomb attack targeting guards at the Presidential Palace in Jakarta in December last year.
The 28-year-old told her trial at East Jakarta District Court on Wednesday that she was motivated to carry out the plot to create "good deeds" for her parents.
"The blessing from 'jihad' could help my parents enter heaven," Novi said.
"Suicide is for people who are desperate in their life while I wasn't desperate in life. (Jihad) for me is a (good) deed to uphold 'dien' (religion) in Indonesia."

https://islamqa.info/en/8511

Praise be to Allaah.

Quote
It was reported in the hadeeth of al-Miqdaam ibn Ma’di Karb that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:

“The martyr (shaheed) has seven blessings from Allaah: he is forgiven from the moment his blood is first shed; he will be shown his place in Paradise; he will be spared the trial of the grave; and he will be secure on the Day of the Greatest Terror (the Day of Judgement); there will be placed on his head a crown of dignity, one ruby of which is better than this world and all that is in it; he will be married to seventy-two of al-hoor al-‘iyn; and he will be permitted to intercede for seventy of his relatives.”

What a nice  religion  death cult. It is a win win.
Survive and get the loot and slaves, die and go to paradise.

Islam thrives on low IQ superstitious people who obey unquestioningly.
Islam's worst enemy is knowledge. 
« Last Edit: August 10, 2017, 02:01:00 AM by pr126 »
‘War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.' 1984

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2017, 05:16:29 AM »
Here are few rules for you .

1-   never take any translation of verses of the Qurans for granted . they are all no good specially the ones peddled by Turkey and oil rich gulf States.for English speakers there is only one  appropriate translation.
2-   Ascertain the reason why the verse was coined . usually they were coined to address an issue and usually according to Mohammed whims as well as to  serve his interests as he saw them \
3-   Trace the source of the verse. The quran is for the most part a Jewish book .no ill will meant by that .I like Jews .  Its Jewish heresies, legend  anyway.  Ask Brauch if you don’t believe . he said he is Jewish heretic. Anything you say can and  will be used against you in a court of law  . I’m always available for hire as counselor  of course. .
4-   That means ascertain if the verse is before or after Hijra . if before then 80 % probability its based on a Jewish source. .
5-   Apply textual analysis to the verse to pin point linguistic comprehension errors, etc. . usually any thing in brackets is an indication.

Few more rules but I will skip them except for one that relates to the posted verse which is that text is to be understood according to how it was understood by its contemporaries

The verse ,specified above as  5:95 , is from surat al nisa .  Originally it said  those who fight and give money are better than those who sit home . A blind man came to Mohammed and objected . Mohammed revised the verse to exclude blind people  referred to in the sura in arabic as Ula al Adrar – ice blind people. This is not clear in the English translation. The important thing to note , only blind people are excluded . the rest are better  who  die for Allah or donate their wealth than those who sit home sort of thing. . but even if let’s say the verse excluded invalids in general , it does not exclude kids or women , or elderly ,etc . two it does  not prohibit invalids from blowing themselves up  .in practice it works to provide an excuse for  only blind people. anyone else  can be a suicide bomber . so boko haram uses child suicide bombers , drugged cannon fodder, prostitutes, cut throats , mentally disturbed people , guys who have to do it because boko haram has their relatives hostages and if they don’t Boko haram kills them  ,etc, for the person to be blind and blows himself into smithereens he has to want to . he can still do it . if he doesn’t allah doesn’t penalize him for it. If he does Allah is tickled.

@Cavebear ..you got it ? quiz next week. Study hard . fail and more loans for you. Just don’t want you to end up living in fifth wheel trailer. You have to get an education. I care about you. i do .maybe not . who knows ?

you still haven't figured out what makes for useful in Islam. nice tries. proud  of you

Offline Baruch

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2017, 06:37:42 AM »
yes yes , that is true . die for Allah . we call them cannon fodder. Yes become Muslim please, give him the explosive belt , send him to blow himself up

one incident in Arabia … A British soldier would not abandon his cannon . the Arabs were telling him flee with us and fight another day .they couldn’t understand that British soldier code . To do or die

now now we do need Christians in Ramadan . Muslims fasting , incapacitated . position bunch of Christians in government offices to do the work while fasting Muslim sleeps . no no you can’t convert to islam . we need you to stay Christian
actually if you go by the quran conversion to Islam is not possible . sorry allah says you can't

In Judaism, this is called a "Shabbos goy".  Common Semitic culture ;-)
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Offline Baruch

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2017, 06:39:49 AM »
Wow the Koran is more repetitive than the christian text?  "Say it once and then say it again reversed"...  Dumber than I knew.

And that "special reward" is...?  Be honest...

This is an aspect of Biblical poetry also.  Parallelism of synonyms.  Of course, one can do that in any language.  But again this shows common Semitic culture.

There is very selective appreciation of poetry among our regulars.  My geekness has kept my artistry dormant, so I have a hard time with poetry too.
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Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2017, 08:44:17 AM »
@Baruch.you know I knew I could count on you .thanks for input  . but hey listen  In my introduction , the Yiddish was a question as well as diversionary .  multi level stuff. Not to  address AL Rahman caste doubt as to your  claim as to being a Jewish heretic and teacher of Hebrew. Small doubt though. I believe in you. But then  it could have been just uncalled for level of expertise. .  .i  give you the benefit  of doubt . Still time to fix it . you can’t ,  I’ll help you 

Yes,  in Venice / Europe Jews provided excellent service in terms of banking and interest business . Jews too where  Shabbat  goy. Works the same in all areas

its sajaa" more so like rhyme than parallelism  in the quran and it does make good case for  rambling charges which i think what the poster meant . no excuse for that just because others did it . .

Offline Cavebear

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2017, 06:05:11 AM »

@Cavebear ..you got it ? quiz next week. Study hard . fail and more loans for you. Just don’t want you to end up living in fifth wheel trailer. You have to get an education. I care about you. i do .maybe not . who knows ?

you still haven't figured out what makes for useful in Islam. nice tries. proud  of you
\

You are so pathetically wrong.

Well, for starters, I am retired.  I own my home, car, etc.  Have no debts.  Not a dime to anyone end of month.

I have a degree in Political Science and a minor in Europe and Middle East history.  So you are SO laughingly  wrong about all that.

Beyond that, I don't care what you think.  Middle East history is merely a series of fanatical bloodbaths.  Mostly internal ones. 

Islam started by slaughtering the locals, then moved along North Africa killing all the Christians on the way.  You probably don't know that.  Then your theist ancestors attacked Christian Europe at Constantinople and Spain massacres all as they went. 

Well, of COURSE the Christians fought back.  Who wouldn't?  Your invasions of Eastern Europe and Spain CAUSED the Crusades.  The Europeans were having enough trouble with the Vikings attacking them all over the place.  They didn't want to bother YOU.  But you had to attack them both sides.

So after they finally whipped/assimilated the Vikings, there you were in their territory.  And all military-trained.  What did you THINK they were going to do?  Beg for mercy? 

Of COURSE they wanted their territory back. 

Now, I'm not saying the battles were justified.  I think Christians then were crazy thugs,  As you guys are now.

I'm just saying the Christians didn't actually start the fight...  You did.  Read some actual history...



Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2017, 06:32:56 AM »
I believe Taqqiyah has been misunderstood. It does not advocate for wholesale lying without shame or reason. Rather, it encompasses principles even an atheist would agree with. If your life is in danger, say as a shia muslim or non-Takfiri muslim or an atheist in the lands of ISIS, and the only way you know you can survive is by hiding your faith and saying what they want to hear, then this is permissible.

If someone will persecute you or cause you harm because of your faith, you can hide it. Rather than dying continuing to proclaim your faith, Islam allows you to preserve and protect your life first, as well as stopping chaos occurring in society.


Offline Baruch

Re: What's the Difference Between Taqiyya and Tawriya?
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2017, 06:38:12 AM »
I believe Taqqiyah has been misunderstood. It does not advocate for wholesale lying without shame or reason. Rather, it encompasses principles even an atheist would agree with. If your life is in danger, say as a shia muslim or non-Takfiri muslim or an atheist in the lands of ISIS, and the only way you know you can survive is by hiding your faith and saying what they want to hear, then this is permissible.

If someone will persecute you or cause you harm because of your faith, you can hide it. Rather than dying continuing to proclaim your faith, Islam allows you to preserve and protect your life first, as well as stopping chaos occurring in society.

Martyrs are life haters anyway.  Masochistic murderers.  So, all of a sudden, you get your act together?  Which is the real you?  I had almost given up on you ;-(
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