Author Topic: A question for the ex-Christian atheists  (Read 1667 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2017, 05:53:00 PM »
I think those kinds of people who talk that talk simply want to seem profound. 
While I didn't articulate that, it was what I read in his body language, demeanor, and the way he worded it.  When I quoted him above, it was actually a paraphrase, because this was 20 years ago.  So I doubt that I explained my read of him as well as I could.  Still it was just a read, filtered through my experiences and biases.  And while reading meanings and underlying psychological motivations can be misinterpretations, I felt unusually confident about that one.  The glaring part from just his words alone, was that he showed no intention of explaining what so obviously begged for explanation.  If he had no explanation, it would have made more sense not to bring up the thing in the first place.  It would be like saying, "I have an extremely profound thought that I cannot understand."  That basically comes down to, "I don't know what I'm talking about," so I'll agree that he was trying to sound profound and knowledgeable beyond normal human intelligence.

As a side issue, the fact that everyone behaved as if they all understood him is irrelevant, especially in AA where nodding heads and parroting AA slogans and catchy phrases is considered good form, lest one be accused of not seeing the Emperor's new clothes.

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2017, 11:48:29 PM »

As a side issue, the fact that everyone behaved as if they all understood him is irrelevant, especially in AA where nodding heads and parroting AA slogans and catchy phrases is considered good form, lest one be accused of not seeing the Emperor's new clothes.
I've not been to an AA meeting so I take your word for it.  But it sounds like what I've heard from others.  But I've noticed this same type of thing in churches.  A bunch of nodding and knowing looks.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2017, 06:46:32 AM »
I think those kinds of people who talk that talk simply want to seem profound.  And that  they have privy to some secret christian message that only reveals itself if you become a 'believer'.  And so, to prove they are a believer and thus a christian (and saved--whatever that means to them), they espouse to know the secret handshake and secret words.  Of course their ministers talk like that, too.  So, they can wink and nod at their minister with that knowing look--'Hey, we got it, don't we!'  It's the Big Lie--the one that proves that belief and faith are real and work.

When someone says something and you understand it (because you both had similar experiences) ... then they might give words and body language to acknowledge that.  Everyone who posts here is autistic.  We don't do "social communication" very well.  Of course, if two people think they have something in common, they might be wrong (deluded or lying).  You as an atheist (even then) do not share a common experience that they had (if they in fact have that common experience).  Talk about marriage around people who have never been married (the Pope for instance).  Such people might pretend that they understand, or even delude themselves that they understand ...  but unless you have been significantly married, then you don't.

There is nothing wrong with X, because Y had an experience, that X never had.  But X will never understand Y on that issue.  Similarly Y will never understand X, for not having had that experience.  Mutual incomprehension is normal.

Of course just because two people share an experience, and interpret it similarly ... doesn't mean they are right in their interpretation.  One experience, a thousand interpretations.  But I won't deny in principle, that people have experiences, and any two people may have had an experience in common.  We have a saying .. two Jews, three opinions.

As far as intent goes .. every American is a grifter, and so are you ;-)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 07:10:52 AM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2017, 01:22:00 PM »
Congratulations in proving my point in your previous post. I know you didn't do it on purpose because you lack any basic sense of self-awareness, but I appreciate you having my back.

Congratulations in proving my point in the above highlighted post. I know you didn't do it on purpose because you lack any basic sense of self-awareness, but I appreciate you having my back.

Otherwise you would have attempted to answer the question you responded to... Why make an effort if it does not correspond to the bible? If you seek to worship the God of the bible why follow a religion in a different direction?
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2017, 01:23:48 PM »
I prayed for knowledge of God and read the Bible  I prayed to believe.  Had I been given belief, I think I would have accepted belief as evidence of God's existence, but I'm doubtful that I would have maintained such self deception forever.  But there always remains the overriding lack of evidence that continues to exist whether you believe or not.  I could not overcome that.

In the end, belief is not knowledge.  It is not evidence.  It's only belief, and claiming anything more is semantic gibberish.  Neither believers or non believers  have any claim to truth.  Actual truth lies far beyond belief, so far beyond that it is not available to any of us except as a mind game we might play with ourselves where we claim to have such ultimate truth.

And if God were the evidence? Now what if you had direct access to God, or a clear as a bell awareness of God apart from any guideance or religious interpretation?

How long do you think you could sustain you belief system then?
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2017, 01:29:49 PM »
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." What a load of gibberish this is. Substance of things you don't have, and invisible evidence. lol
A true fool. I give you a clear understanding you return to mucky waters to pretend not to understand...

Good job there ace you've fool only people like you who want to be fooled.

Faith is the belief in what others have found and the belief that if you follow their path it will be there for you as well. Faith is a belief in a system unknown to you but known by others, to exercise faith in such a system is contingent on your belief in the experiences of those who have completed that journey. To ask them questions that only someone who knows God could know to seek the blessings and to understand what God has given them to observe what changes were made to them and to continue this process till you find What others have found.



1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2017, 01:31:51 PM »
Even Biblical authors couldn't decide what prayer was for, and it really makes no sense from a Christian context. They pray to ask for favors from an omniscient god who already knew what they needed, praying to God for certain outcomes, in hopes of him altering his perfect plan just to appease them.

They petitioned God to do something in their favor.

To Pray is to have God change you to His want and His will not the other way around.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2017, 02:01:55 PM »
well Drich If you don't know that fasting is in the new testament then I guess you didn't bother to read it.
I guess you didn't bother reading my post.
Here Clearly I acknowledge fasting in the bible:
Quote from: drich
Context context context None of those people were looking to move the hand of God and traded a few meals inorder to do so!!! what kind of bankrupt deity trades a full stomach for a woman's want and will to  marry a nutter who thinks God is in the hunger strike business?!?!?

But I also point out that fasting found in the bible had nothing to do with what you called fasting.

Understand? I separated what biblical fasting is defined as, from what you did. In other words just because you label an effort of yours after a biblical ceremony, does not mean God will bless it as such. In order to receive God's blessing we must look at what the ceremony instilled from beginning to end and not just pick out a key observance and then say we are "fasting" in this case. There is a hell of a lot more to fasting then just not eating in exchange for a wish graned.
Quote
You missed the point of the post. I asked for god to prove he exists before I started any of the things in the list.
and you missed the point sport! What IF! YOU VERSION OF GOD DOES NOT EXIST!?!?!!

Turn to the Bible How Does JESUS Himself Say He Will Help Those Identify Themselves as Worshiping a false God or the wrong way???
Jesus Said God will send the winds and the rain to destroy your FAITH!!!

Listen to the song, it is not just a taunt. It is a message that we have lost the meaning of. The house is all your religious crap.. all of your religious dressing the fasting prayer good deeds sunday attendance all of it. that is your faith/house. Now if your version of God is false it is the same as building the same house I built, but without a foundation. you can pray and fast but if there is no one to support your belief structure God Himself tells us what we built will Fall.

Your house failed. Why? because you asked God for proof. God gave you proof that your version of God does not exist.

From that all you should be able to say is that your religion's idea of God is wrong. but rather than say that, you assume that all religions are wrong because you are or would have been God's "special" little man.

Wake up douche, before we are called 'sons' we are first brought into God's house as servants/slaves. So no God isn't going to meet you 1/2 way. Not on this. He may grant you salvation still, but this is not a matter of salvation this is a matter of eternal currency, your value and closness to God. It is Not about His value to you. That means you are required to meet Him on His Terms.

So go find a rock and start to build on that and see if next time when it rains God doesn't show up to keep what you built in place.

Quote
If you ask god to prove that he exists and nothing happens, the first thought comes into your mind is maybe I didn't ask right.
and then this God does not exist. Then you should exaimine your religion against what the bible says. if it is different anywhere then know You are not worshiping the same God. I can not speak for your religion as I do not know it's God. However I do know the God the bible represents is alive and active.

Quote
So you try asking in another way. If you try every way you can think of and still nothing happens sooner or later you get to realize your wasting your time.
And if you do it the way God tells you HE not me promised to bless you with the Holy Spirit.. Perhaps a small measure at first, but you will grow and learn how to interact with God Himself. If that is what you want.

Truthfully what do I have to gain by telling otherwise?

I represent no organization, I have not nor ever will ask for anything, I don't know any of you... I am simply someone who knows without shame or doubt that the bible is true, and that the God of the bible is alive and well. and that we all have access to God if we so desire. Just gotta do things his way first. He is indeed God, who can argue?

1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Cavebear

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2017, 07:36:25 AM »
I went straight from a very early understanding that there was no Santa Claus straight to atheist.  I skipped the whole deity idea as "the same idea".  I would say that god was the adult version of Santa Claus, but I don't really consider theists to be quite "adult".  Adult suggests a mature mind.
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline trdsf

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2017, 12:55:20 PM »
I never did any of those things that I can recall, mainly because I didn't feel the need to ask for proof at the time.  My parents told me there was one and I accepted that on face value -- as children do.  Later, after I converted to Wicca, my prayers were of a nature where I didn't ask for things, I asked for understanding why things happened the way they did.  And then eventually I quit the whole god/gods thing altogether as I realized it was both a waste of time philosophically and unsupported factually.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2017, 12:57:40 PM »
I never did any of those things that I can recall, mainly because I didn't feel the need to ask for proof at the time.  My parents told me there was one and I accepted that on face value -- as children do.  Later, after I converted to Wicca, my prayers were of a nature where I didn't ask for things, I asked for understanding why things happened the way they did.  And then eventually I quit the whole god/gods thing altogether as I realized it was both a waste of time philosophically and unsupported factually.

In Wicca ... did you ever worship "Sky Clad" ... were you cute?
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2017, 04:21:03 AM »
I asked for understanding why things happened the way they did.  And then eventually I quit the whole god/gods thing altogether as I realized it was both a waste of time philosophically and unsupported factually.
Asking "for understanding why things happened the way they did" is sensible.  It is the expectation that some supernatural being did it that is not...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Solomon Zorn

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2017, 04:59:54 AM »
...I don't really consider theists to be quite "adult".  Adult suggests a mature mind.
I do understand what you are saying...but having attended Bible college, for a couple of years...I have to say, that isn't always true. Several of my professors were, in fact, highly intelligent, and taught me a great deal, about non-Christian subjects, including history, historical literature, creative writing and, surprisingly enough...logic.

At the same time though, I see that you have good point("intelligent," and "adult," not always being the same thing), since the teacher, that I still consider my biggest influence, and the "smartest of the bunch," has apparently decided not to talk to me anymore, ever since I emailed him a link to my website, for a critique(which he said he would be glad to give, in his reply) of my poetry...

Which is made all the more sad, by the fact, that I actually visited his home, on more than one occasion, and considered him both a mentor, and a friend.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2017, 05:03:17 AM by Solomon Zorn »
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Cavebear

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2017, 05:35:11 AM »
I do understand what you are saying...but having attended Bible college, for a couple of years...I have to say, that isn't always true. Several of my professors were, in fact, highly intelligent, and taught me a great deal, about non-Christian subjects, including history, historical literature, creative writing and, surprisingly enough...logic.

At the same time though, I see that you have good point("intelligent," and "adult," not always being the same thing), since the teacher, that I still consider my biggest influence, and the "smartest of the bunch," has apparently decided not to talk to me anymore, ever since I emailed him a link to my website, for a critique(which he said he would be glad to give, in his reply) of my poetry...

Which is made all the more sad, by the fact, that I actually visited his home, on more than one occasion, and considered him both a mentor, and a friend.

One can be both highly educated in a subject and still be a general idiot.  I made great effort in college and after to learn the basics of almost everything.  And the more religious the subject, the greater the idiot...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline trdsf

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2017, 10:56:56 AM »
Asking "for understanding why things happened the way they did" is sensible.  It is the expectation that some supernatural being did it that is not...
*shrug*  Much like any of the rest of us here who used to be believers, it made sense at the time.  Eventually, I did come to understand, and that's why I'm not a theist of either the mono- or poly- type anymore.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief