Author Topic: A question for the ex-Christian atheists  (Read 1162 times)

Offline fencerider (OP)

A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« on: July 07, 2017, 02:39:14 AM »
How far did you go to find the god of the Bible before you realized he isn't real? What kind of crazy things did you do to get god's attention?

Here are a few things I remember doin (probably forgetting a few):

1. Praying while readin a Bible promise related to what I was praying for.
2. Praying for 3-4 hrs straight.
3. Prayin all night long.
4. fasting for 20 days before praying
5. fasting and praying at the same time for 30 days straight.
6. once when I was desparate I went on a hunger strike for 62 days.
7. clearing a room of evil spirits before praying
8. praying while burning frankincence oil in a candle
9. praying while burning frankincence sap

There was probably some other useless things I tried, but you get the point. I'm guessin you did some of these things and you also did other things that never crossed my mind.
Would you like to play with my invisible friend? HE can give you anything that you want. All you have to do is ask HIM

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2017, 05:29:59 AM »
I doubt you did the fasting or hunger strike ... unless you were an anorexic girl at the time ;-)  Sorry if you actually did.  Don't do that again.

Also most people clearly misunderstand the purpose of prayer ... understandably so ... because their only version of G-d is Santa Claus.  Read the Book of Job ... people!
שלום

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2017, 11:00:42 AM »
How far did you go to find the god of the Bible before you realized he isn't real? What kind of crazy things did you do to get god's attention?

Here are a few things I remember doin (probably forgetting a few):

1. Praying while readin a Bible promise related to what I was praying for.
2. Praying for 3-4 hrs straight.
3. Prayin all night long.
4. fasting for 20 days before praying
5. fasting and praying at the same time for 30 days straight.
6. once when I was desparate I went on a hunger strike for 62 days.
7. clearing a room of evil spirits before praying
8. praying while burning frankincence oil in a candle
9. praying while burning frankincence sap

There was probably some other useless things I tried, but you get the point. I'm guessin you did some of these things and you also did other things that never crossed my mind.

Oh, no. You did it all wrong. See, first you have to be baptized in Jesus name. Or in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Or was it Holy Spirit? You know how fickle God can be, you have to use the right name(s) or it doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you're baptized by full emersion. Sprinkling doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you really mean it when you do it, or it's invalid. Actually, baptism is just an expression of faith, so none of that matters anyway. You need to be baptized in the Spirit to be born again. Make sure you ask specifically to be saved. It's not enough to believe. You have to confess you believe, because God is omniscient, but he still needs you to tell him these things. Keep praying until you feel the Holy Ghost in you and start speaking in tongues. Or don't. I can't remember. But anyway, one thing is crystal clear. If you're an ex-Christian now, you were obviously never a true believer to begin with.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2017, 12:07:26 PM »
Oh, no. You did it all wrong. See, first you have to be baptized in Jesus name. Or in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Or was it Holy Spirit? You know how fickle God can be, you have to use the right name(s) or it doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you're baptized by full emersion. Sprinkling doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you really mean it when you do it, or it's invalid. Actually, baptism is just an expression of faith, so none of that matters anyway. You need to be baptized in the Spirit to be born again. Make sure you ask specifically to be saved. It's not enough to believe. You have to confess you believe, because God is omniscient, but he still needs you to tell him these things. Keep praying until you feel the Holy Ghost in you and start speaking in tongues. Or don't. I can't remember. But anyway, one thing is crystal clear. If you're an ex-Christian now, you were obviously never a true believer to begin with.
And Verily I say unto you..............................
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2017, 01:17:30 PM »
How far did you go to find the god of the Bible before you realized he isn't real? What kind of crazy things did you do to get god's attention?

Here are a few things I remember doin (probably forgetting a few):

1. Praying while readin a Bible promise related to what I was praying for.
2. Praying for 3-4 hrs straight.
3. Prayin all night long.

Probably not. We've talked and it does seem you understand the concept of prayer.

In the bible Prayer is identified only (in a couple different places, but same prayer same outline) once through Christ and it has a specific out line.
Luke 11:1
starts the outline:
One time Jesus was out praying, and when he finished, one of his followers said to him, “John taught his followers how to pray. Lord, teach us how to pray too.”

2 Jesus said to the followers, “This is how you should pray:

‘Father, we pray that your name will always be kept holy.


pretty self explainatory, we should open and honor God with our prayer as well as the rest of our lives.

 point 2:

We pray that your kingdom will come.
This means all of the stuff in the book of revelation you are asking to come to pass.

Give us the food we need for each day.
Here we can seek/petition God for our daily needs.

Forgive our sins,
    just as we forgive everyone who has done wrong to us.

Here we are directed to ask for conditional forgiveness. Meaning God don't forgive me unless I can forgive others/God judge me the same way i judge others.

And don’t let us be tempted.’” then we are asked to ask to be kept from temptation.

That it sport that is all a prayer is according to Jesus. Now Paul later explains to ask for personal stuff even spiritual growth is identified as petitioning God. While God is obligated to answer all prayer, He is not obligated to answer all petitions the way we want.

In light of this second option and you general understanding of the outlined prayer offered by Jesus, is the reason I say I doubt you spent any measurable amount of time in actual prayer... I mean how long can one possible drone on about the destruction of this earth, for God's wrath to be poured out on the people, how much bread you will eat today... or all the sins you will forgive so go will forgive you.. did you really pray all night long asking not to be tempted by something?

Or were you asking God for crap to keep you on one side of the fence verses the other? holding your faith hostage till god met you on your terms??? Hell I've been apart of stupid stuff like that and know that can easily go all night long.

Quote
4. fasting for 20 days before praying
and let me Guess God still did not meet you on your terms even though you envoked these "powerful cermonial rituals" shown to be effective in empowering 'prayer warriors'?
Bwahahaha

Context context context None of those people were looking to move the hand of God and traded a few meals inorder to do so!!! what kind of bankrupt deity trades a full stomach for a woman's want and will to  marry a nutter who thinks God is in the hunger strike business?!?!?

God it must enrage you to even consider that God would empower someone as 'not christian' as I am after all the pomp and circumstance you put yourself through... Here I am and you can't hardly tell I am a christian by the harshness I speak to "you people" with, meanwhile you a stunning examle of the faith without measure goes on ignored! For goodness sake!I you to beat the holy hell out of people like you!!!

Quote
5. fasting and praying at the same time for 30 days straight.
6. once when I was desparate I went on a hunger strike for 62 days.
Fasting in pop christianity= pouting. God give me what I demand or I will sell my faith to the atheists!

Quote
7. clearing a room of evil spirits before praying
how does that work?!?!? do you shake your wankie around the room sprinkling them with your yellow 'holy water?' Bwahahaha!!!! Seriously BCV on that one...
Quote
8. praying while burning frankincence oil in a candle
9. praying while burning frankincence sap
Ayeiii stop please I am on the floor here... where how why would you think this... any of this had/has to do with the God of the bible? BCV where is the book Chapter and Verse that demand we do any of that crap? That's all religion sport.. your Whole list is all, empty religious practice that you think is tied to God. Meaning you think the God of the bible will honor your whatever because you did these things.. Yes you list is based on things found in the bible but are far removed from thier original purpose and context. Which has no application for all the petitioning you were doing.

So why didn't God meet you half way?

What if I said He did. what If I were to tell you your ATHEISM is a gift from God? it is a complete restart a clean douche out of all the religious poison that was keeping you from God.

If you started new and sought the God of the bible as found and talked about in the bible you would indeed find what you were looking for with a tiny fraction of the effort you initially put in. why because hopefully you will be doing things His way, and put down your sorcerers ideas on how to manipulate God by pouting/not eating.

I think I may have fasted a weekend in 20 years, and maybe a day or two after that period. I pray as Jesus teaches maybe once a week and I petition even less. But I have a daily open dialog with the holy Spirit hourly. sometimes only a word or two like "lord what do you want done here, or should I try and continue one with this project, or give me the structure or verses to back up what I am saying, and God opens the flood gates..

What you try and by with your religious ceremony was gifted to me. why? because God promised this to everyone who sought out the Holy Spirit... which brings me back to your list... When did you follow God's directions in Luke 11? When did you Ask When did you SEEK and when did you knock for the Holy Spirit?

Granted you can lie and tell me you spent days asking for the Spirit in prayer and I have to accept that, but when did you seek? or do you not understand the term? when did you open you bible and read? and when you read and you saw that your religious practices were not found or being used in the same way the bible has them being used? what did you change? according to your list you changed nothing. you stayed static and tried to barter your faith for ceremony... Now understand the God of the bible does not barter faith for ceremony, so then what you were doing was trying to barter with a God of your own religious denomination. Now as that God does not exist and because you are an honest person you right identified that the God you worship was non existent.

However that does not give you the right to poo poo on anyone else, unless you know by experiencing where God is and is not. All you can say is the dark religious hole you came from was empty

Quote
There was probably some other useless things I tried, but you get the point. I'm guessin you did some of these things and you also did other things that never crossed my mind.

God's way is so much easier, you just have to hang on when the ride starts.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2017, 01:19:54 PM »
Oh, no. You did it all wrong. See, first you have to be baptized in Jesus name. Or in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Or was it Holy Spirit? You know how fickle God can be, you have to use the right name(s) or it doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you're baptized by full emersion. Sprinkling doesn't count. Oh, and make sure you really mean it when you do it, or it's invalid. Actually, baptism is just an expression of faith, so none of that matters anyway. You need to be baptized in the Spirit to be born again. Make sure you ask specifically to be saved. It's not enough to believe. You have to confess you believe, because God is omniscient, but he still needs you to tell him these things. Keep praying until you feel the Holy Ghost in you and start speaking in tongues. Or don't. I can't remember. But anyway, one thing is crystal clear. If you're an ex-Christian now, you were obviously never a true believer to begin with.

Why make the effort if you do not make any effort to understand?

You a-holes go through the motions and because you check off boxes in a religious list someplace you feel entitled. I can promise you that all of you whom feel entitled will get what they are entitled to.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2017, 01:49:49 PM »
In the Lord's Prayer ... not sins, not trespasses ... but debts ... per Matthew 6.  Being in debtor's prison was an immediate issue, not sin.

"Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors." .... from ESV

... ὀφειλήματα ... ὀφειλέταις both of which mean "debt".  Other translations say different, but that reflects the bias of the translators.
שלום

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 02:37:01 PM »
Why make the effort if you do not make any effort to understand?

You a-holes go through the motions and because you check off boxes in a religious list someplace you feel entitled. I can promise you that all of you whom feel entitled will get what they are entitled to.

Congratulations in proving my point in your previous post. I know you didn't do it on purpose because you lack any basic sense of self-awareness, but I appreciate you having my back.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline SGOS

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 03:42:21 PM »
I prayed for knowledge of God and read the Bible  I prayed to believe.  Had I been given belief, I think I would have accepted belief as evidence of God's existence, but I'm doubtful that I would have maintained such self deception forever.  But there always remains the overriding lack of evidence that continues to exist whether you believe or not.  I could not overcome that.

In the end, belief is not knowledge.  It is not evidence.  It's only belief, and claiming anything more is semantic gibberish.  Neither believers or non believers  have any claim to truth.  Actual truth lies far beyond belief, so far beyond that it is not available to any of us except as a mind game we might play with ourselves where we claim to have such ultimate truth.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 03:44:37 PM by SGOS »

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 03:58:25 PM »
I prayed for knowledge of God and read the Bible  I prayed to believe.  Had I been given belief, I think I would have accepted belief as evidence of God's existence, but I'm doubtful that I would have maintained such self deception forever.  But there always remains the overriding lack of evidence that continues to exist whether you believe or not.  I could not overcome that.

In the end, belief is not knowledge.  It is not evidence.  It's only belief, and claiming anything more is semantic gibberish.  Neither believers or non believers  have any claim to truth.  Actual truth lies far beyond belief, so far beyond that it is not available to any of us except as a mind game we might play with ourselves where we claim to have such ultimate truth.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." What a load of gibberish this is. Substance of things you don't have, and invisible evidence. lol
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 04:45:44 PM »
I prayed for knowledge of God and read the Bible  I prayed to believe.  Had I been given belief, I think I would have accepted belief as evidence of God's existence, but I'm doubtful that I would have maintained such self deception forever.  But there always remains the overriding lack of evidence that continues to exist whether you believe or not.  I could not overcome that.

In the end, belief is not knowledge.  It is not evidence.  It's only belief, and claiming anything more is semantic gibberish.  Neither believers or non believers  have any claim to truth.  Actual truth lies far beyond belief, so far beyond that it is not available to any of us except as a mind game we might play with ourselves where we claim to have such ultimate truth.

The only knowledge you could ever gain, would be knowledge of your inner/outer self.  Whatever that knowledge might be, it is just something in a person's head, it is a cumulative human experience.  Solipcism is the dark heart of epistemology.  If in your particular self, you were meant to believe X, you would have.  And there are things you have believed, do believe or will believe.  Even the belief that you know something.

Your problem is you want to will yourself to believe X.  "will" is a different psychological category from belief.  Life doesn't work that way.  I can will myself to get out of my chair, and I am likely to do so.  You can will yourself to fly like a bird off the top of your home, flapping your arms ... but I won't take bets on your chances. 

Subjective reality isn't objective ... and objective reality is over-rated.  Where two people agree, that is the seed of the objective ... but the quality of it varies enormously ... if both people are idiots, the quality is low ;-)  And self knowledge is no different ... in that we have great conflicts of interest, so self delusion is likely.  Every individual develops over time, but it is only the truth of their subjective experience that they gain.

Part of that subjective experience is the the communication between individuals, which they call objective, if they agree.  We call it objective too, but only if we also agree.  A simple subjective experience that is also objective, is to count the change in your pocket.  And have another person count it too.  In one or more attempts, a single amount will be determined.  But that begs the question ... what will it buy?  That depends on inflation or deflation.
שלום

Offline Sal1981

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 04:47:51 PM »
Being honest about evidence and what is expected out of faith, kinda nails the coffin of faith shut.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 04:48:42 PM »
Being honest about evidence and what is expected out of faith, kinda nails the coffin of faith shut.

And in the long run, we are all dead.
שלום

Offline Sal1981

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 04:58:01 PM »
The only knowledge you could ever gain, would be knowledge of your inner/outer self.  Whatever that knowledge might be, it is just something in a person's head, it is a cumulative human experience.  Solipcism is the dark heart of epistemology.  If in your particular self, you were meant to believe X, you would have.  And there are things you have believed, do believe or will believe.  Even the belief that you know something.

Your problem is you want to will yourself to believe X.  "will" is a different psychological category from belief.  Life doesn't work that way.  I can will myself to get out of my chair, and I am likely to do so.  You can will yourself to fly like a bird off the top of your home, flapping your arms ... but I won't take bets on your chances. 

Subjective reality isn't objective ... and objective reality is over-rated.  Where two people agree, that is the seed of the objective ... but the quality of it varies enormously ... if both people are idiots, the quality is low ;-)  And self knowledge is no different ... in that we have great conflicts of interest, so self delusion is likely.  Every individual develops over time, but it is only the truth of their subjective experience that they gain.

Part of that subjective experience is the the communication between individuals, which they call objective, if they agree.  We call it objective too, but only if we also agree.  A simple subjective experience that is also objective, is to count the change in your pocket.  And have another person count it too.  In one or more attempts, a single amount will be determined.  But that begs the question ... what will it buy?  That depends on inflation or deflation.
That's solipsism and radical skepticism all rolled into one.
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool" --- Richard P. Feynman

Offline Baruch

Re: A question for the ex-Christian atheists
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 07:05:56 PM »
That's solipsism and radical skepticism all rolled into one.

You are ready to leave the monastery ... Grasshopper.  Go forth and do likewise ;-)

Given that no two modern people can agree on anything ... I am not sure that objective facts exist anymore (paradox).
שלום