Author Topic: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!  (Read 1290 times)

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« on: July 06, 2017, 10:17:52 AM »

All of you know what the Epicurean paradox is even if it is under a different name "the problem of sin" or something like that. in essence:


    If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to

    Then He is not omnipotent.

    If He is able, but not willing

    Then He is malevolent.

    If He is both able and willing

    Then whence cometh evil.

    If He is neither able nor willing

    Then why call Him God?

Two main thing your man eppie here lied before the monotheistic God of the jews took center stage on the world. So who was Eppie talking about? the Greek God he worshiped of course. By reading this you can see it has been strawmanned to fit a single God. So then how do the Single God of Israel differ from the gods/strawman of old?  Eppie's paradox was written to put an omni-max God on trial and place Him in a paradox.

The problem? The God of the bible is not nor ever has claimed to be an  omni max God. that is a title that the much latter church gave him in an effort to sum up what they couldn't quite square with their church doctrines. So the Changed the God of the bible from being an Alpha and Omega God to a omni max God.

The difference/ omni max must (for some stupid reason must default to max use of power) while alpha and omega puts God's will and authority ahead of or the use of power. As alpha and omega describes a beings with no limitations but his own will.

So let see how that squares with eppies little paradox:


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    If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to

    Then He is not omnipotent.
-Or If God has prevent Evil but says it is apart of his master plan to allow humanity the choice of Heaven and or Hell then it simply means God wills a limited degree of evil for man to indulge in so as to cement his eternal intentions.

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    If He is able, but not willing
    Then He is malevolent.
In His plan, evil is indeed nullified

   
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If He is both able and willing
    Then whence cometh evil.
through personal choice. God saves those who seek redemption from evil and punishes those who seek to indulge in it.

   
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If He is neither able nor willing
and if He has done both?

   
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Then why call Him God?
Because His will has nullified evil for those who seek it removed from themselves, and for those who wish to indulge in evil god has made a provision for them as well.

1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 10:52:06 AM »
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your man eppie
*cringes*

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The God of the bible is not nor ever has claimed to be an  omni max God. that is a title that the much latter church gave him in an effort to sum up what they couldn't quite square with their church doctrines.
So...your God is not omnibenevolent, omniscient, or omnipotent?

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The difference/ omni max must (for some stupid reason must default to max use of power) while alpha and omega puts God's will and authority ahead of or the use of power.
So...basically, this?



"I turned off my omniscience" - Mr Deity

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As alpha and omega describes a beings with no limitations but his own will.
That description sounds suspiciously like omnipotence.

Offline Cavebear

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 11:25:00 AM »
The continuing problem of theists is that none of them can offer the slightest evidence to support their beliefs.  I once asked some theistic door-bangers to prove there even was a Jesus.  They were so utterly baffled that they had to send their Top Convincer to discuss it with me.  I agreed with some amusement.

Top Convincer gave me a pamphlet.  An actual PAMPHLET OMG such proof!  I glanced at it briefly and pointed out that none of the "proof" was from contemporaries of the alleged person, and that none included civil references that would have existed.

They left confused.  Certain in their belief to be sure, but confused.  I don't think they run into people like us very often.  And to be honest, I just usually don't answer the door knock when they are around.

But sometimes it's fun...
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 11:56:23 AM »
Complains about how hard it is to keep up with so many replies, makes half a dozen threads.

"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline Cavebear

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 12:13:21 PM »
Complains about how hard it is to keep up with so many replies, makes half a dozen threads.

(Image removed from quote.)

I've been up too long.  I was watching that guy clapping his hands and wondering when it would start to hurt... 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Baruch

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 01:30:47 PM »
I've been up too long.  I was watching that guy clapping his hands and wondering when it would start to hurt...

Disassociation can do that to one.  If you don't know what time it is, why wake up or why go to sleep?  Buridan's ass.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 01:34:00 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Offline Baruch

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 01:33:16 PM »
Drich ... on Epicurus.   Did you know he died from constipation?  Occupational hazard of philosophers.  Usually their head gets constipated, but sometimes the other end ;-)

The paradox that Epicurus is using ... isn't a real problem.  If you accept that a god is an asshole, not some childish idealism ... then we don't have to solve the "theodicy" problem ... it solves itself.  G-d is an asshole, we are images of G-d ... so that explains our behavior too.  And the theodicy problem solves itself, when we die.
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Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2017, 01:32:10 PM »
*cringes*
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Purposed..
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So...your God is not omnibenevolent,
Actually no. In the bible He has a list of people in whom God hates. So no not omnibenovlent.

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omniscient, or omnipotent?
If He wants to be then yes... If not then no... Which explain why/how Jesus isn't privy to all the things the Father is privy to IE the 2nd comming.

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So...basically, this?
old computer gets hung up on videos alot please explain video if you want comment.



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"I turned off my omniscience" - Mr Deity
That description sounds suspiciously like omnipotence.
Actually it is a step above Omnipotence (which is a biblically correct word used to describe God) in that God's own will and discernment is the measure of when and how His ultimate power is used.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2017, 01:53:44 PM »
The continuing problem of theists is that none of them can offer the slightest evidence to support their beliefs.
Think about it for a second smart guy... If a theist could produce God on demand then the theist would be a power greater than God. thus meaning the god produced is not a deity... How about a theist at any point can tell you where God is to be found if you so choose to seek Him out.

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I once asked some theistic door-bangers to prove there even was a Jesus.
asked and answer by 10 different people on this website already. my answers to them should more than satify you. I would seek them out if you truly want the last word on this subject.

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They were so utterly baffled that they had to send their Top Convincer to discuss it with me.  I agreed with some amusement.
Pride before the Fall

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Top Convincer gave me a pamphlet.  An actual PAMPHLET OMG such proof!  I glanced at it briefly and pointed out that none of the "proof" was from contemporaries of the alleged person, and that none included civil references that would have existed.
I can list 5 civil references letters from pilate Himself,http://wesley.nnu.edu/sermons-essays-books/noncanonical-literature/noncanonical-literature-writings/the-letter-of-pontius-pilate-which-he-wrote-to-the-roman-emperor-concerning-our-lord-jesus-christ/

 but some of the strongest examples are from pliny the younger and emporer trajan
who was sent to inquire and execute Christians. His thoughts concerning Christ and the Christians:
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html

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They left confused.  Certain in their belief to be sure, but confused.  I don't think they run into people like us very often.  And to be honest, I just usually don't answer the door knock when they are around.

But sometimes it's fun...

you are a 2000's cliche' of what atheism use to be. The Jesus doesn't exist argument was refuted long long time ago by people with interwebs. maybe if you gets some interwebs maybe then you could look up a new top ten list not to believe in God. Most of you now will acknoweledge the "nice rabbi named Jesus" because you can no longer deny...

1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2017, 01:54:56 PM »
Complains about how hard it is to keep up with so many replies, makes half a dozen threads.

(Image removed from quote.)
Does not complain, just points out how hard it is to keep track when everything is in one thread.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Baruch

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2017, 01:55:59 PM »
Does not complain, just points out how hard it is to keep track when everything is in one thread.

My G-d gives me super-powers ... guess yours is too modest ;-)
שלום

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2017, 01:58:07 PM »
Drich ... on Epicurus.   Did you know he died from constipation?  Occupational hazard of philosophers.  Usually their head gets constipated, but sometimes the other end ;-)

The paradox that Epicurus is using ... isn't a real problem.  If you accept that a god is an asshole, not some childish idealism ... then we don't have to solve the "theodicy" problem ... it solves itself.  G-d is an asshole, we are images of G-d ... so that explains our behavior too.  And the theodicy problem solves itself, when we die.

Well an asshole God is sometimes refuted by the religious who believe God is omni benvolent. Which is why it is important to take the omni max god off the table and establish who and what God is according to His own words.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Baruch

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2017, 02:02:29 PM »
All theology gods are fake gods.  Theologians are the mothers of all heresies.
שלום

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2017, 09:45:57 PM »
P1:  Gods are projections of the believers in those gods.
P2:  Poster Dirch1050 believes in certain gods.
P3:  Poster Dirch1050 is a little shit.
C1:  The gods poster Dirch1050 believes in are little shits.

Re: Alpha and Omega takes out Epiricus!
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2017, 10:41:00 PM »
alpha and omega puts God's will and authority ahead of or the use of power. As alpha and omega describes a beings with no limitations but his own will.
where did you come up with this ridiculousness? or did you make it up yourself?

Alpha means first, Omega means last. It's a fancy way to say he is the only real god that is or ever was. It says nothing about his abilities.

Evil doesn't just come from personal choice. I guess you forgot the Bible says god created evil.


another quote from an antagonist agnostic: not expecting god to show up, but if he does we’re going to have to beat the prick up.