Author Topic: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump  (Read 229 times)

Offline Shiranu (OP)




That pendulum will shift one day, and hopefully that day is soon. You can only push for so long before you will be pushed back upon, and I think moderates and leftists are getting more and more sick of this right-wing bullshit that has dominated our politics and dominated our culture for far too long. Socially that movement was coming during Obama's terms... politically, it is building up as seen by the support for "leftists" like Bernie.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 06:06:42 AM »
I recall a banner once that said "The intelligence of the planet is finite, and the population is growing".  Absurd, of course, but I understand the idea.  We (collectively) seem to be getting dumber all the time.  I suspect there is so much information that we are losing our ability to do anything with it as a population.  More and more, some people are just giving up trying.  It is easier to just ask someone else to tell us what to do.

Strong confident people have always been leaders, but strength and confidence does not mean "comprehension".

I fear the majority of us have lost the ability to keep up with the increase of information, and that the ability to make good decisions is being lost. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 07:35:50 AM »
I recall a banner once that said "The intelligence of the planet is finite, and the population is growing".  Absurd, of course, but I understand the idea.  We (collectively) seem to be getting dumber all the time.  I suspect there is so much information that we are losing our ability to do anything with it as a population.  More and more, some people are just giving up trying.  It is easier to just ask someone else to tell us what to do.

Strong confident people have always been leaders, but strength and confidence does not mean "comprehension".

I fear the majority of us have lost the ability to keep up with the increase of information, and that the ability to make good decisions is being lost.

Human beings can only keep 4-10 things in their head at a time.  That is base IQ.  Here is more ...



Of course using averages, is an example of statistics abuse.  But as individuals, we are either smart or dumb, no matter what politics says.
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Offline Baruch

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 07:36:36 AM »



That pendulum will shift one day, and hopefully that day is soon. You can only push for so long before you will be pushed back upon, and I think moderates and leftists are getting more and more sick of this right-wing bullshit that has dominated our politics and dominated our culture for far too long. Socially that movement was coming during Obama's terms... politically, it is building up as seen by the support for "leftists" like Bernie.

Sorry, the pendulum is slow.  It took 40 years to return to the 1960s ... to return to Obama 2.0 ... you will be in nursing home.
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Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 08:00:29 AM »
Sorry, the pendulum is slow.  It took 40 years to return to the 1960s ... to return to Obama 2.0 ... you will be in nursing home.

It is what it is. I'll hopefully be in a country far, far away long before then.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 08:06:39 AM »
It is what it is. I'll hopefully be in a country far, far away long before then.

But is it Canada or Mars?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 08:09:42 AM »
Sorry, the pendulum is slow.  It took 40 years to return to the 1960s ... to return to Obama 2.0 ... you will be in nursing home.
I don't think Obama's election reflected any more than a reaction to George Bush.  As such he was just a blip.  The pendulum is slower than a shift of left-right-left-right with each election.  I'm pretty sure the pendulum is still in a swing to the right and Obama was an integral factor in the movement towards the right.  I think it will begin a swing to left at some future point, assuming there is actually such a dynamic that exists, but I can't say that Trump represents the end of the swing.

And the swing is not Republican vs Democrats.  Both are headed towards the right, with the Republicans just leading the Democrats along.  The change in the direction of the pendulum will be Republicans/Democrats<towards>Something Else.  That's just my guess.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 08:13:06 AM by SGOS »

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 11:15:02 AM »
I don't think Obama's election reflected any more than a reaction to George Bush.  As such he was just a blip.  The pendulum is slower than a shift of left-right-left-right with each election.  I'm pretty sure the pendulum is still in a swing to the right and Obama was an integral factor in the movement towards the right.  I think it will begin a swing to left at some future point, assuming there is actually such a dynamic that exists, but I can't say that Trump represents the end of the swing.

And the swing is not Republican vs Democrats.  Both are headed towards the right, with the Republicans just leading the Democrats along.  The change in the direction of the pendulum will be Republicans/Democrats<towards>Something Else.  That's just my guess.

Politics may be more pendulous than you think.  I recall in the mid 90's telling my parents I thought the Republican Party would dissolve and a new one form...  So wrong.  The brand is too valuable.  Instead, other groups trade times taking over each party and redefining them for their own purposes. 

I should have know better, having written a paper comparing the 1964 Goldwater and 1968 Humphrey takeovers of the parties.  Everything old is new again...

You may indeed be correct that both parties are moving to the "Right".  It has happened before and both parties have sometimes moved to the "Left" as well.    We might be headed into some isolationism for a decade.  The US has historically been successfully isolationist.  To poorly quote Bismarck, "The US is blessed with weak neighbors north and south and oceans east and west".

We are seeing the end of the Pax Americana that resulted from the general destruction of Europe after WWII while the US was relatively undamaged and an economic power.  That couldn't last forever. 

But things will change again.

Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline SGOS

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 12:20:00 PM »
Politics may be more pendulous than you think.  I recall in the mid 90's telling my parents I thought the Republican Party would dissolve and a new one form...  So wrong.  The brand is too valuable.  Instead, other groups trade times taking over each party and redefining them for their own purposes. 
Which would explain why so many of my so called liberal friends are so caught up in a brand and not noting the direction of the country as a whole.  That's a bit unfair, however.  At some level, I think they realize where this is going, but I think focusing on the brand is an important factor that is taking the country where it's going.

Offline Baruch

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 01:43:39 PM »
It is what it is. I'll hopefully be in a country far, far away long before then.

I hope you enjoy Portugal.  I am a bit envious.  But ultimately humans run away from themselves, and you can't ever get far enough away ;-(  Find peace with yourself ... and you will be at home anywhere.  But until then, enjoy the adventure ...
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Offline Baruch

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 01:46:08 PM »
Which would explain why so many of my so called liberal friends are so caught up in a brand and not noting the direction of the country as a whole.  That's a bit unfair, however.  At some level, I think they realize where this is going, but I think focusing on the brand is an important factor that is taking the country where it's going.

It only matters if you are in the FEMA camp or outside the FEMA camp ... the ideology doesn't matter except to suckers.
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Offline Cavebear

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2017, 06:49:23 AM »
Which would explain why so many of my so called liberal friends are so caught up in a brand and not noting the direction of the country as a whole.  That's a bit unfair, however.  At some level, I think they realize where this is going, but I think focusing on the brand is an important factor that is taking the country where it's going.

Indeed!  The Democratic Party used to stand for broad ideas like worker rights and education and health.  There IS too much identity politics muddling the message.  I want older Democratic values for everyone, not just this for those and that for another.  I want the idea that we are all in this together to become more central again. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!

Offline Baruch

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 07:12:59 AM »
Indeed!  The Democratic Party used to stand for broad ideas like worker rights and education and health.  There IS too much identity politics muddling the message.  I want older Democratic values for everyone, not just this for those and that for another.  I want the idea that we are all in this together to become more central again.

Do I have an "Amen" for Brother Cave Bear?  Amen!
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Offline Shiranu (OP)

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 09:13:50 AM »
But is it Canada or Mars?

Neither. Something with a more Mediterranean/Atlantic flair.
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion..." - Nelson Mandela

"Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be." - Miguel de Cervantes

Offline Cavebear

Re: Jimmy Carter on How the Establishment (Right-Wing) Gave Us Trump
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 09:23:33 AM »
Neither. Something with a more Mediterranean/Atlantic flair.
Ah, Portugal!
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!