Author Topic: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...  (Read 846 times)

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« on: July 05, 2017, 06:12:57 AM »
So you think you want to go to "Heaven," and live in "eternal bliss?" I feel I must dissuade you, of this delusion.

The concept of "Eternal Heaven," is second only to the concept of "Eternal Hell," as the most horrifying idea ever conceived, and eventually the two would be virtually indistinguishable. Here's why:

After a trillion years, with an exponent of 9, followed by a trillion times a trillion zeros, you would still have lived only an infinitesimal speck of your never-ending lifetime. And there is an obvious problem with that: long before the unfathomable length of time, that I just described, had passed, you would have long since exhausted every significant variation, of any pleasant, or desirable experience for a living entity. Or to put it a little more simply: how many times can you hear the same joke, before it's no longer funny? Or to be a little more vulgar, but perhaps more accurate: how long can you fuck, before your dick gets sore?

Everything that was once pleasant would become painful, until you found yourself completely numb.

You would literally find yourself envying a rock, for being inanimate.

This is why most atheist's have the better long-term hope: zero.

Or as David Byrne put it, in what I consider to be the most comforting song in my music-library, "We're on a road to nowhere."





"And it's all right..."


« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 06:23:24 AM by Solomon Zorn »
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Baruch

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2017, 06:44:54 AM »
You are on a road to nowhere ... because you have already arrived ;-)  Everyone has.  You have always been at the center egotistically and physically ... you never went anywhere.  Think of the surface of a sphere like the Earth ... everywhere you stand, you are surrounded, you are the center (but not the axis, that is only the N/S pole).

Regular (non-Buddhist) theistic views of an afterlife are as valid as ... Santa Claus.  In the original Torah Judaism, there is no afterlife, just Sheol aka The Grave.  Of course this isn't a stable position ... people want to keep their illusion of linear time, their illusion of personal identity (see Buddhism).  Circular time is equally inaccurate, as is reincarnation .. though it is helpful for breaking Western people out of their Matrix.  But jacking into the Eastern Matrix isn't any better in the long run.
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Offline SGOS

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2017, 08:37:06 AM »
before the unfathomable length of time, that I just described, had passed, you would have long since exhausted every significant variation, of any pleasant, or desirable experience for a living entity. Or to put it a little more simply: how many times can you hear the same joke, before it's no longer funny?
Yes, but you haven't factored in that one undeniable factor at the heart of most religions; Magic!  Each experience in eternity is freshened when the magician waves his hand and resets it all to zero and makes everything new.  Yes you still remember the old, because memory is a requirement for making sense out of things.  You remember a previous experience, but through magic, it becomes different somehow.  How exactly?  Well, we don't know, because it's magic.

This is the failure of Islam, the false religion.  It fails to recognize the component of magic.  Instead, it gives you 72 virgins.  OK, that's going to last for a little while.  For many, that's more than a lifetime of sex.  For those Muslims that do not comprehend magic, it's like, "Yahoo!  Seventy-two!  I'll blow myself up today because 72 is higher than I can count.  Seventy-two must be like 37 billion trillion, and I'd be lucky to get two anyway, so let me at it."

But 72 virgins require maintenance.  Some of them actually don't like to slapped around the way a good Muslim woman wants to be, and without the magic, they get headaches, and some of them actually expect you to provide them with inventive ways to satisfy them.  It gets to be a chore, and pretty soon, you will be wishing to get your old life back.

Offline Atheon

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2017, 11:39:47 AM »
Eternal life... even when the number of eons you've "after-lived" surpasses Graham's Number or TREE(3), you're still not even an iota of the way to the end, because there is no end. Eternal life makes life meaningless, and it will get old fast.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." - Seneca

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2017, 11:43:21 AM »
You are on a road to nowhere ... because you have already arrived ;-)  Everyone has.  You have always been at the center egotistically and physically ... you never went anywhere.  Think of the surface of a sphere like the Earth ... everywhere you stand, you are surrounded, you are the center (but not the axis, that is only the N/S pole).

Regular (non-Buddhist) theistic views of an afterlife are as valid as ... Santa Claus.  In the original Torah Judaism, there is no afterlife, just Sheol aka The Grave.  Of course this isn't a stable position ... people want to keep their illusion of linear time, their illusion of personal identity (see Buddhism).  Circular time is equally inaccurate, as is reincarnation .. though it is helpful for breaking Western people out of their Matrix.  But jacking into the Eastern Matrix isn't any better in the long run.
I grok you, Brother. Really. In fact, I'll see your "center egotistically, and physically," and raise you a "center mathematically."

I know you are aware, that I am experiencing insomnia, that has lasted for months now. If I can take a second to digress, before I even begin, I have come to a point of enlightenment, on the very subject of "enlightenment."

Many "truth seekers" try to find enlightenment by deliberately trying to cause themselves to "suffer," in order to obtain a higher understanding. "Cross a threshold," as it were. I now realize, that it is, literally, impossible to find it that way. For what should seem like an obvious reason: if you deliberately seek something, then it is, by it's very definition, not suffering. Suffering isn't when you fast, or climb the seven thousand steps, or eat a knotted rope, or take a vow of poverty, or deny yourself the company of women, for the rest of your life. Suffering is the shit  that you wish to fucking God would stop, because it is so absolutely miserable, that it makes you, actually envy a rock, and you have no control over it, whatsoever. Suffering, in my opinion, can teach you a lot, but of what fucking possible value is the lesson? You can't teach it to anyone, and the price is way too fucking high.

now, to get back to the point. A week or two ago, my friend, and his wife, stopped over for a visit. I made the mistake of letting them smoke a joint with me(first time in quite a while). Now I have always become very thoughtful, and creative, and
talkative, when I smoke weed. But combining it with months of insomnia, took me to a level I had never been before(and don't ever want to go again). This will sound silly to almost everyone, but you, Baruch. But I'm pretty sure, that I came as close as anyone ever will, to articulating "The Unified Theory of Everything." Here's the door: dichotomy. Everything and it's dichotomy, are essentially, like two sides of a single coin flipping through space. That has to be the exact solution, simply because it can't be. Nothing and everything, are one and the same. Words are math, on a higher level than physics, and are an equation, like every other equation, continually solving itself, and contradicting itself, on a level that is so completely incomprehensible, that it is far, far beyond numbers, to the point that it resembles some kind of insane, supernatural, chaos. It reaches into dimensions, that the human mind can't even conceive.

After my friends left, I got trapped in this thought for so long, reciting dichotomies to the walls, that I found myself in the center of the universe: a null point, in between all of these contradictory ideas, and realized that I have been there all along, and never, ever, want to go back. When you sit there, for a while, it all make perfect sense, because it is both simple and completely incomprehensible. Nonsense, is exactly as mathematically perfect, as any other thing in space. I'm now convinced that all that exists comes from nothing, flipping on the other side of the coin from every-potential-possibility. Everything is math, and math alone. Substance is just one, of an incomprehensibly complex series of side-effects, of this fucking strange shit.

That's about as far as I want to go with the thought, for the moment, and if you want me to comment further on the subject, I will decline. It sounds like complete bullshit, until you see it for yourself. I know most people won't get it, but I think you will grok me, Baruch.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Munch

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2017, 12:39:28 PM »
Eternal life... even when the number of eons you've "after-lived" surpasses Graham's Number or TREE(3), you're still not even an iota of the way to the end, because there is no end. Eternal life makes life meaningless, and it will get old fast.

Pretty much. We're transient creatures, both in our time and what we make of it. To not die means change can't occur, and change is just a fundamental aspect of the universe. As evolved animals, we require companionship, comforts, to be able to fit into the world around us and adapt and grow. None of that would occur if you live forever, everyone you know and love grows old and dies while you keep going, making just the idea of companionship meaningless, and there is only so much our species can do before we run out of steam.

Plus you wouldn't live forever, since the sun going supernova would see to that.

Offline Baruch

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2017, 01:21:44 PM »
Yes, SZ ... I do grok you.  Many a Buddhist monk has been sleep deprived, meditating in the wee hours thanks to tea.  Even Muhammad said the best time to pray is after midnight.  When we enter an altered state of consciousness ... we suffer a breakdown of normality.  Normies of course fear this.  You are clearly Kekistani now ;-)  You have then .. maybe before then .. experienced "ocean of being".  A near death experience can induce this too.

The Zen masters report that spiritual development goes from normality, to abnormality, to un-normality.  The purpose of monk life and meditation and koans is to break down your normality.  Enlightenment isn't "it" aka abnormality ... post-Enlightenment is the goal.  People who have only gotten to Enlightenment ... are said to be ... "stinking of Zen".  If it happens again, I hope you have someone in normal mind, be there with you, to pull you back from the brink, if you get too close.

This spontaneously happened to me many years ago when in REM sleep, and I had the self consciousness to pull myself back, to wake up ... otherwise I wouldn't have ended up in un-normality, but stuck in abnormality.  My wife was in bed next to me, asleep, but I was unaware of her, she couldn't have helped me if I had called out for help.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:12:17 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2017, 01:48:57 PM »
Turns out we are all Kekistani, even our alternate selves, living on the far side of the galaxy...
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2017, 01:55:25 PM »
Laughing Buddah says, "Beware of disrupting your sleep patterns, or you may find yourself understanding Baruch's obscure jokes, to the point that they may even seem profound."
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2017, 02:01:41 PM »
I think you may not have groked what I said in this part though:

Quote
Suffering isn't when you fast, or climb the seven thousand steps, or eat a knotted rope, or take a vow of poverty, or deny yourself the company of women, for the rest of your life. Suffering is the shit  that you wish to fucking God would stop, because it is so absolutely miserable, that it makes you, actually envy a rock, and you have no control over it, whatsoever. Suffering, in my opinion, can teach you a lot, but of what fucking possible value is the lesson? You can't teach it to anyone, and the price is way too fucking high.

To make it a little more clear, I'm basically saying, "Fuck asceticism, or any of that kind of search for meaning, Buddhist, or otherwise. You can't find it: it has to find you. But if you see it coming, run away as fast as your little feet can carry you..."
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2017, 02:21:36 PM »
One thing about Buddhism though: reincarnation...

I have this odd, very clear, but impossible memory, of being retarded. I lived in the same house(very close to a small market), and had the same parents. In this memory, the girl I first fell in love with(in this life), was a cashier at the store. She treated me with love,  and respect, every time I went in the store. So I asked her on a date. She agreed to go on the date with me, but before we could go out, someone convinced her that she couldn't date a retarded boy. I remember very clearly, feeling so devastated,  and cheated,  and angry,  and helpless.

Skip ahead to this life, in which I have a brain, that allowed me to articulate complete sentences, from the time I was about 16. Not 16 years...16 inches. As in before I could get out of my crib, and walk, or even eat solid food. My cousin told me the story of the first time she saw me. I was in my crib, and when she walked in my room, my bottle was on the floor. She picked it up, and put it in my crib. I responded by  saying, "I think it's probably sour." She screamed, and ran out of the room. At which point, my mom said, "Oh! I forgot to tell you: He talks."

On the other hand, the girl I was talking about, has been employed for decades now, as a caretaker for the mentally handicapped.

Karma?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 02:24:14 PM by Solomon Zorn »
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com

Offline Baruch

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2017, 03:55:57 PM »
I think you may not have groked what I said in this part though:

To make it a little more clear, I'm basically saying, "Fuck asceticism, or any of that kind of search for meaning, Buddhist, or otherwise. You can't find it: it has to find you. But if you see it coming, run away as fast as your little feet can carry you..."

I do know the book of Job ... so yes, I do grok it.  I know the book of Job in my own life, not as literature.  I know Ecclesiastes in my own life, not as literature.  Us old guys get it.  Mortality can't be escaped, but it can be appreciated.

Do you remember the book of Jonah ... run away to Tarshish you will try, get there you won't.  To Nineveh you will go, preach to the Ninevites, what G-d tell you to preach you will.  Just don't get your panties in a wad, if they repent.  Ninevites represent the people you most want G-d to smite, not to show mercy to.  They lived where ISIS is now.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:13:55 PM by Baruch »
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Offline Baruch

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2017, 03:58:28 PM »
One thing about Buddhism though: reincarnation...

I have this odd, very clear, but impossible memory, of being retarded. I lived in the same house(very close to a small market), and had the same parents. In this memory, the girl I first fell in love with(in this life), was a cashier at the store. She treated me with love,  and respect, every time I went in the store. So I asked her on a date. She agreed to go on the date with me, but before we could go out, someone convinced her that she couldn't date a retarded boy. I remember very clearly, feeling so devastated,  and cheated,  and angry,  and helpless.

Skip ahead to this life, in which I have a brain, that allowed me to articulate complete sentences, from the time I was about 16. Not 16 years...16 inches. As in before I could get out of my crib, and walk, or even eat solid food. My cousin told me the story of the first time she saw me. I was in my crib, and when she walked in my room, my bottle was on the floor. She picked it up, and put it in my crib. I responded by  saying, "I think it's probably sour." She screamed, and ran out of the room. At which point, my mom said, "Oh! I forgot to tell you: He talks."

On the other hand, the girl I was talking about, has been employed for decades now, as a caretaker for the mentally handicapped.

Karma?

We play many roles in the Globe Theater of life ... do you remember/foresee when you were/will be Yorick's skull, and Hamlet picked/will pick you up?

"Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite jest, of most excellent fancy."

It is our fate to become stage props in the stories of other people.  But some of us want to morbidly be the drapes that when drawn closed, close the play, not just the present scene.  But the play must go on ...

See addenda to post #6 above.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 04:14:52 PM by Baruch »
שלום

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2017, 04:10:16 PM »
After a trillion years, with an exponent of 9, followed by a trillion times a trillion zeros, you would still have lived only an infinitesimal speck of your never-ending lifetime. And there is an obvious problem with that: long before the unfathomable length of time, that I just described, had passed, you would have long since exhausted every significant variation, of any pleasant, or desirable experience for a living entity. Or to put it a little more simply: how many times can you hear the same joke, before it's no longer funny? Or to be a little more vulgar, but perhaps more accurate: how long can you fuck, before your dick gets sore?

Everything that was once pleasant would become painful, until you found yourself completely numb.

They (the Christians) know that, it's even in their anthem, Amazing Grace:


Quote
When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

Of course, 10,000 years is a very long way shy of even the miniscule portion of "eternity" you mentioned. Not only would everything that could be done  actually be done by us, but everything would be done an infinite number of times.

God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Offline Solomon Zorn (OP)

Re: Eternal Life? You Might Want To Rethink That...
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2017, 04:13:29 PM »
I do know the book of Job ... so yes, I do grok it.  I know the book of Job in my own life, not as literature.  I know Ecclesiastes in my own life, not as literature.  Us old guys get it.  Mortality can't be escaped, but it can be appreciated.

Do you remember the book of Jonah ... run away to Tarshish you will try, get there you won't.  To Nineveh you will go, to preach to the Ninevites, what G-d tell you to preach.  Just don't get your panties in a wad, if they repent.  Ninevties represent the people you most want G-d to smite, not to show mercy to.
I think we all have our, "Book of Job,"(with the possible exception of our current president).

Ecclesiastes, by the way, is my second favorite portion of the Christian(Protestant) Bible. Right after the "Sermon On the Mount," and followed closely by Proverbs, and the Epistles of John.
If God Exists, Why Does He Pretend Not to Exist?
Poetry and Proverbs of the Uneducated Hick

http://www.solomonzorn.com