when God shows up

[Munch]

And I bet a Kzin could kick your kitty's tail ;-)

its not about butt kickery, its about who looks best in swim shorts.

[Drich0150]

You have made everything up, Sport.  Oh Great Dildo, all of it is a fiction. 
Now if you are read...........

proof???

[Mike Cl]

proof???

Well, Sport, there is no god--and jesus was not real.  That is simply as plain as the sun rising tomorrow.  Prove otherwise, Sport.
Now if you are read...........

[Drich0150]

Well, Sport, there is no god--and jesus was not real.  That is simply as plain as the sun rising tomorrow.  Prove otherwise, Sport.
Now if you are read...........

I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...

[Baruch]

I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...

The Romans declared Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar to be gods ... do you worship them?

It would appear that by the early part of the 2nd century CE, there were pre-Constantinian Christians of some sort in N Turkey were governor Pliny Jr was posted by Emperor Trajan.  Their connection to subsequent Orthodox/Catholic Christianity of the 4th century is obscure.

Tacitus' report was hearsay, he got from Romans 50 years after the fact (the burning of Rome).  We know that Pontius Pilatus was propraetor in Judea at the right time (an inscription in Caesarea), as was Antonius Felix/King Herod Agrippa II in the time of Paul's trial in Caesarea.  That religious outcasts accused of arson were executed by Nero is clear, but it is not clear what Christianity was then ... other than it was a Hellenistic Jewish sect opposed to the rabbinical Jewish sect.  Recent scholarship can't clearly say they were even Jewish (as all Christianoi would have been at that time) ... but that some of them may have been Isis worshippers, who were similarly scapegoated.  Tacitus' hearsay evidence doesn't prove what happened in Judea 50 years before, only what some people in Rome thought to have happened.  The "chrestos" is mentioned ... which only means "anointed" ... it doesn't show the secular role, let alone the supernatural role of such a person.  Many Jewish people were crucified by the Romans at various times.  The Maccabees earlier, had crucified 70,000 Pharisees before the Roman occupation of Judea in 63 BCE.

The existence of messianic Jews (Gentile messianics were unusual before the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 CE, 20 years after Tacitus wrote) is well known, before 135 CE.  The number of messianic Jews after the Bar Kochba revolt dropped to near zero, because of the failure of three messianic revolts by rabbinic and Hellenistic Jews over a 74 year period.  These revolts being inspired by the earlier, partially successful revolt by the Maccabees.

None of this does more than trivially support the NT as history.  There is no reason to believe any of this is supernatural in our time, though people believed everything was supernatural (including Roman Emperors) back then.  The unsuccessful revolt of the Jewish people against Roman oppression is if anything, a denial of the existence of G-d.  The survival of god-fearing Gentiles of Pauline or non-Pauline gnostic background is also known to history (Pre-Nicene Church Fathers and Gnostic writers) after 135 CE is known.  The real founding of Christianity, contrary to Protestant mythology ... was by Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.  With additional foundations in Armenia and Ethiopia by the monarchies there.  Prior to the establishment of State Christianity, Gentile messianics were a theologically incoherent group of religious dissidents.  And per Roman law, were justifiably persecuted for the crime of "illegal association" and "denigration of state cult (particularity he divinity of the emperors)".  Without Julius Caesar posthumously, and Augustus Caesar while still alive, claiming to be gods incarnate ... Jewish resistance wouldn't have needed to be as fanatic ... nor Gentile resistance even imaginable.  Roman paganism was quite accommodating, even of Judaism, provided that one cooperated with the Roman authorities (which religious extremists could not do, any more than ISIS could do today).  The majority of Jewish messianics weren't pacifists ... and were often pro-Persian (the arch-enemy of the Romans).  Only pro-Roman pacifist Jewish messianics like the ekklesia of Paul could be allowed to survive, and even then, underground.  You had to be licensed by the State, to run a religious institution, and they didn't have a license to do so until the time of Constantine.

The devil is in the details.  The real Paul wouldn't be recognizable to today's Christians, nor would the majority Jewish messianics who opposed his accommodation with the Gentile god-fearers (see Peter and Barnabas).  Modern Jewish messianics are divided now, same as back then, regarding Gentiles and the degree of Jewish observance.  Paul's immediate eschaton failed to appear ... and his organization only survived first as small enough to be ignored, and later elevated to State religion as the ultimate irony.  Constantine himself, if I read the evidence, considered himself, the second coming of Christ.  And he was just as wrong as Paul was.  Paul was a great Hellenistic rabbi, same as Josephus and Philo ... and none of those three men, ever saw anything that we would agree was supernatural.

[Mike Cl]

I have shown extra biblical transcripts from several sources (from an Roman emperor, Pilate/governor and a roman senator/tributary (#3 guy in Rome at the time) not to mention the 7 or 8 other guys Christians reference that you all poo poo on without reason.

that all confirm the existence of Jesus at least 6 different times since I've been a member here. So what else do you have? Again to deny hrist is to deny the existence of Julius ceasar as more was written about Christ than the emperor of rome at the time to a margin of 10:1

Now if you can Read....... I will drop the hammer:
Let's start with a letter from the Number 3 guy in Rome to the emporer
http://www.tyrannus.com/pliny_let.html (boom)

Now we Got the emperor recognizing Christ/christianity and reaffirming the order to kill Christians
http://faculty.georgetown.edu/jod/texts/pliny.html (Boom!)

Next Tactius An Offical Roman Historian!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ Wiki wiki wuuuuttt???

If you can read...

If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.

[Hydra009]

Now if you can Read.......

Don't you mean "Now if you are read" ?

[Baruch]

If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.

For you "just" fictions.  For me "fictions".  Fictions for you are weakness, for me they are power.  I live in a humanistic world, of humans, by humans, for humans.  Materialism is secondary for me, as is rationality.  If we were Vulcans, all our stories would be logical.  And if we were materialists too, then we wouldn't have any stories.  Except maybe the parable of Stone Soup ;-)

[Mike Cl]

For you "just" fictions.  For me "fictions".  Fictions for you are weakness, for me they are power.  I live in a humanistic world, of humans, by humans, for humans.  Materialism is secondary for me, as is rationality.  If we were Vulcans, all our stories would be logical.  And if we were materialists too, then we wouldn't have any stories.  Except maybe the parable of Stone Soup ;-)

There are 'just' and then there are 'just'--depends upon what one means. :)  For dildo I mean 'just' as his god is no more real than Bugs Bunny or any other fiction.  So, that 'just' is to signify that his fictional world is no more important or real than that of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character. 

I fully understand what some fictions mean and how important they are.  Those fictions are not 'just' fictions.  But serve a real purpose for a society or group.  Like Aesop's fables, they can be short morality plays.  Or as detailed in 'Women Who Run With The Wolves', fables and fairy tales and legends and myths can function in a variety of ways; a reflection of a society, an illustration of the good and bad in certain situations; a representation of the coming of age rite or set of thoughts and actions; and a number of other things.  Some fiction can be 'just' a good story (nothing wrong with that, I love a good story) or it can serve as a sounding board for how we should act as opposed to how we do act.  Fiction is not unimportant.

In Dildo's case he tries to elevate his personal fiction to a position of being all-important or as being the ultimate reality, when, in fact, it is 'just' a fiction.   

[Baruch]

And 2000 or 3000 year old fictions, are of doubtful utility.  Stories of Washington's or Lincoln's honesty ... more useful.

[Drich0150]

The Romans declared Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar to be gods ... do you worship them?

It would appear that by the early part of the 2nd century CE, there were pre-Constantinian Christians of some sort in N Turkey were governor Pliny Jr was posted by Emperor Trajan.  Their connection to subsequent Orthodox/Catholic Christianity of the 4th century is obscure.

Tacitus' report was hearsay, he got from Romans 50 years after the fact (the burning of Rome).  We know that Pontius Pilatus was propraetor in Judea at the right time (an inscription in Caesarea), as was Antonius Felix/King Herod Agrippa II in the time of Paul's trial in Caesarea.  That religious outcasts accused of arson were executed by Nero is clear, but it is not clear what Christianity was then ... other than it was a Hellenistic Jewish sect opposed to the rabbinical Jewish sect.  Recent scholarship can't clearly say they were even Jewish (as all Christianoi would have been at that time) ... but that some of them may have been Isis worshippers, who were similarly scapegoated.  Tacitus' hearsay evidence doesn't prove what happened in Judea 50 years before, only what some people in Rome thought to have happened.  The "chrestos" is mentioned ... which only means "anointed" ... it doesn't show the secular role, let alone the supernatural role of such a person.  Many Jewish people were crucified by the Romans at various times.  The Maccabees earlier, had crucified 70,000 Pharisees before the Roman occupation of Judea in 63 BCE.

The existence of messianic Jews (Gentile messianics were unusual before the Bar Kochba revolt in 135 CE, 20 years after Tacitus wrote) is well known, before 135 CE.  The number of messianic Jews after the Bar Kochba revolt dropped to near zero, because of the failure of three messianic revolts by rabbinic and Hellenistic Jews over a 74 year period.  These revolts being inspired by the earlier, partially successful revolt by the Maccabees.

None of this does more than trivially support the NT as history.  There is no reason to believe any of this is supernatural in our time, though people believed everything was supernatural (including Roman Emperors) back then.  The unsuccessful revolt of the Jewish people against Roman oppression is if anything, a denial of the existence of G-d.  The survival of god-fearing Gentiles of Pauline or non-Pauline gnostic background is also known to history (Pre-Nicene Church Fathers and Gnostic writers) after 135 CE is known.  The real founding of Christianity, contrary to Protestant mythology ... was by Emperor Constantine in the early 4th century CE.  With additional foundations in Armenia and Ethiopia by the monarchies there.  Prior to the establishment of State Christianity, Gentile messianics were a theologically incoherent group of religious dissidents.  And per Roman law, were justifiably persecuted for the crime of "illegal association" and "denigration of state cult (particularity he divinity of the emperors)".  Without Julius Caesar posthumously, and Augustus Caesar while still alive, claiming to be gods incarnate ... Jewish resistance wouldn't have needed to be as fanatic ... nor Gentile resistance even imaginable.  Roman paganism was quite accommodating, even of Judaism, provided that one cooperated with the Roman authorities (which religious extremists could not do, any more than ISIS could do today).  The majority of Jewish messianics weren't pacifists ... and were often pro-Persian (the arch-enemy of the Romans).  Only pro-Roman pacifist Jewish messianics like the ekklesia of Paul could be allowed to survive, and even then, underground.  You had to be licensed by the State, to run a religious institution, and they didn't have a license to do so until the time of Constantine.

The devil is in the details.  The real Paul wouldn't be recognizable to today's Christians, nor would the majority Jewish messianics who opposed his accommodation with the Gentile god-fearers (see Peter and Barnabas).  Modern Jewish messianics are divided now, same as back then, regarding Gentiles and the degree of Jewish observance.  Paul's immediate eschaton failed to appear ... and his organization only survived first as small enough to be ignored, and later elevated to State religion as the ultimate irony.  Constantine himself, if I read the evidence, considered himself, the second coming of Christ.  And he was just as wrong as Paul was.  Paul was a great Hellenistic rabbi, same as Josephus and Philo ... and none of those three men, ever saw anything that we would agree was supernatural.

citations please

[Drich0150]

If I gave a flying fuck about you or your thoughts, I'd discuss all those sightings and mentionings with you.  But I don't.  So, with all that time you can save without having to talk to me, get some English lessons--learn to communicate in a literate way. 

But Sport, as Baruch pointed out, jebus and gwd are still just fictions--no matter how hard you believe.

Google it... No self respecting historian doubts the existence of Jesus and they do indeed cite the 4 letters I cited as extra biblical proof.

2005 called and they want their Jesus was not a real person argument back! I can't help if you will not let go of defeated atheist tripe. you are not even up on popular arguments now. Maybe you should read what the contemporary atheists are now saying about Jesus since they can't deny his existence with out being made fun of by real academics...

Seems some have even found proof he was a sinner and thus not the son of God...

Grow yourself fool. Learn something new. or did you think the bs that your learned about atheist would carry you forward forever? Atheism is like fring science there is always another theory when God prooves the last one wrong.

[Drich0150]

There are 'just' and then there are 'just'--depends upon what one means. :)  For dildo I mean 'just' as his god is no more real than Bugs Bunny or any other fiction.  So, that 'just' is to signify that his fictional world is no more important or real than that of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character. 

I fully understand what some fictions mean and how important they are.  Those fictions are not 'just' fictions.  But serve a real purpose for a society or group.  Like Aesop's fables, they can be short morality plays.  Or as detailed in 'Women Who Run With The Wolves', fables and fairy tales and legends and myths can function in a variety of ways; a reflection of a society, an illustration of the good and bad in certain situations; a representation of the coming of age rite or set of thoughts and actions; and a number of other things.  Some fiction can be 'just' a good story (nothing wrong with that, I love a good story) or it can serve as a sounding board for how we should act as opposed to how we do act.  Fiction is not unimportant.

In Dildo's case he tries to elevate his personal fiction to a position of being all-important or as being the ultimate reality, when, in fact, it is 'just' a fiction.

you've define fiction. that is a start, but you have yet to provide or demonstrate what what I experienced is indeed a fiction. What evidence do you have to support your charge of fiction?

Truthfully you seem pretty jealous that if there was a God he would not have chosen you despite all your work and effort. So then if your simplistic judgement is your sole source for determining fiction in my life, then how can you ensure that hard feelings or simple jealousy is not altering you view???

[Mike Cl]

you've define fiction. that is a start, but you have yet to provide or demonstrate what what I experienced is indeed a fiction. What evidence do you have to support your charge of fiction?

Truthfully you seem pretty jealous that if there was a God he would not have chosen you despite all your work and effort. So then if your simplistic judgement is your sole source for determining fiction in my life, then how can you ensure that hard feelings or simple jealousy is not altering you view???

Because, Sport, I'm not like you--ego driven to the point of blindness.  So, Oh Great Dildo, foam on. 
Now if you are read...................

[Mike Cl]

And 2000 or 3000 year old fictions, are of doubtful utility.  Stories of Washington's or Lincoln's honesty ... more useful.

Some fictions can be timeless--like Aesop.  But when reading stories about Washington or Lincoln, one still needs to be cautious.  Minister Weems illustrates that when he crafted character stories around Washington; Washington's not lying about chopping down a cherry tree is totally made up, but became accepted  as history.  No matter when history was written one must be cautious when accepting it at face value.