Author Topic: My conversion  (Read 2547 times)

Offline Baruch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #150 on: July 18, 2017, 06:26:38 PM »
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.

I can tell your zodiacal sign is "crab" ... amirate? ;-)
שלום

Re: My conversion
« Reply #151 on: July 18, 2017, 07:03:09 PM »
Uh...what?
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Offline Baruch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #152 on: July 18, 2017, 07:05:33 PM »
Uh...what?

You were picking on the stars.  Go to Hollywood and kiss their sidewalk ;-)
שלום

Re: My conversion
« Reply #153 on: July 18, 2017, 07:15:37 PM »
Been there done that - still can't grow corn.
God Not Found
“Money supplants skill; it's possession allows us to become happily stupid.”
Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information

Offline trdsf

Re: My conversion
« Reply #154 on: July 20, 2017, 12:49:24 PM »
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.
I think the development of agriculture and the end of nomadic hunting/gathering more likely caused the invention of a formalized priesthood and organized religion; over time the local leaders needed ways to control growing populations that were no longer socially linked by extended kinship.  I'm sure wandering bands had their gods and spirits, and 'wise men/women' to interpret the signs for them.

Once they settled down into a stationary lifestyle, that's when the serious need for mind control appeared, and what better way to do it than by getting people to believe there's some powerful invisible thing watching them all the time?  The priesthood then develops as the secret police of that region's pantheon, and are given a share of temporal power by the political leaders -- doubtlessly proclaimed as 'divinely chosen' by the priesthood so that opposition to a ruler becomes blasphemy and subject not only to physical punishment but the threat of punishment in an afterlife -- for keeping the populace in line for them.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #155 on: July 20, 2017, 12:51:45 PM »
nice plausible story, except the documented 'nomads' carried their temple/tent and priests with them.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Baruch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #156 on: July 20, 2017, 12:56:16 PM »
I think the development of agriculture and the end of nomadic hunting/gathering more likely caused the invention of a formalized priesthood and organized religion; over time the local leaders needed ways to control growing populations that were no longer socially linked by extended kinship.  I'm sure wandering bands had their gods and spirits, and 'wise men/women' to interpret the signs for them.

Once they settled down into a stationary lifestyle, that's when the serious need for mind control appeared, and what better way to do it than by getting people to believe there's some powerful invisible thing watching them all the time?  The priesthood then develops as the secret police of that region's pantheon, and are given a share of temporal power by the political leaders -- doubtlessly proclaimed as 'divinely chosen' by the priesthood so that opposition to a ruler becomes blasphemy and subject not only to physical punishment but the threat of punishment in an afterlife -- for keeping the populace in line for them.

Correct ... depending on the timeline.  For Jews, this happened with the Ezra Reform circa 500 BCE.  The Persian Emperor promoted this with multiple ethnic minorities in his Empire.  For Jews, the Greeks replaced the Persians and the Romans replaced the Greeks.  No serious freedom for the next 2500 years.
שלום

Offline Cavebear

Re: My conversion
« Reply #157 on: July 22, 2017, 02:56:49 AM »
The gods were invented at the beginning of the agricultural era, as a result of a new (at the time) need to know the exact time of the seasons. So the stars became much more important for their calendars, and in order to remember the times and locations of the stars they made up stories about them and called them gods. Because they were thought not only to tell the times for planting and harvesting, they also became the agents of the seasonal changes. And then, of course, people being people, they began to worship the stars as real gods, eventually even forgetting about the gods' link to the skies. And now we're stuck with supreme idiocy that passes for great wisdom.

I would disagree to the extent that deities were probably created pre-agriculture as sky gods and earthquake gods etc. 
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #158 on: July 22, 2017, 09:07:22 AM »
I would disagree to the extent that deities were probably created pre-agriculture as sky gods and earthquake gods etc.

I would disagree because the existence of God predates man. Meaning God would be pre hunter gatherer as well.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Re: My conversion
« Reply #159 on: July 22, 2017, 03:25:04 PM »
I would disagree because the existence of God predates man. Meaning God would be pre hunter gatherer as well.
Another of your so-called "proofs"?

Göbekli Tepe predates agriculture (it's from about 9.500 BCE), and it was obviously a religious site.

Shanidar Cave predates even that (58,000 BCE) and shows signs of mortuary ritual (gifts to the gods).

But your god dates to after 33 CE (or are you claiming that you worship the Hebrew god?)  No god in the line of succession had a "begotten" son before some time after the so-called resurrection.  (Even Christianity itself, as we know it now, didn't exist prior to that.  How could "Jesus died for your sins" be used as the basis of a religion while he hadn't died yet?)  Your statement that his existence predates man?  Objective evidence, please.  Otherwise you're just another god-botherer who thinks that the Bible is an accurate historical account.
Afflicting the comfortable for 70 years.
Science builds skyscrapers, faith flies planes into them.

Offline Cavebear

Re: My conversion
« Reply #160 on: July 22, 2017, 04:27:21 PM »
Another of your so-called "proofs"?

Göbekli Tepe predates agriculture (it's from about 9.500 BCE), and it was obviously a religious site.

Shanidar Cave predates even that (58,000 BCE) and shows signs of mortuary ritual (gifts to the gods).

But your god dates to after 33 CE (or are you claiming that you worship the Hebrew god?)  No god in the line of succession had a "begotten" son before some time after the so-called resurrection.  (Even Christianity itself, as we know it now, didn't exist prior to that.  How could "Jesus died for your sins" be used as the basis of a religion while he hadn't died yet?)  Your statement that his existence predates man?  Objective evidence, please.  Otherwise you're just another god-botherer who thinks that the Bible is an accurate historical account.

Not to be too light-hearted here, but I have to wonder what contemplated the existence of Christian deity before monotheism existed?  Giraffes?  Gorillas?  Neandethals?
Atheist born, atheist bred.  And when I die, atheist dead!  b 1950