Author Topic: My conversion  (Read 2532 times)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2017, 09:11:02 AM »
But, but we love dreams, particularly if it seems to fulfill a political-economic fantasy ;-)
In the deep, dim misty past (my past), I seem to remember in a book by Camus, I recall a French soldier having a talent I've been envious--the ability to have a wet dream whenever he went to sleep or not.  That is my kind of dream!
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2017, 09:24:31 AM »
In the deep, dim misty past (my past), I seem to remember in a book by Camus, I recall a French soldier having a talent I've been envious--the ability to have a wet dream whenever he went to sleep or not.  That is my kind of dream!

I prefer a woman, thanks ;-)
שלום

Re: My conversion
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2017, 12:00:08 PM »
I prefer a woman, thanks ;-)
I would not turn down the best of both worlds.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline SGOS

Re: My conversion
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2017, 02:26:19 PM »
Dreams seem to me to be mostly bits of junk cobbled together in an incoherent jumble.  Some people analyze them to dig into their subconscious, and often times find something personally revealing, so I think it works, but not for the reasons Freud tells us.  The cobbled jumble that makes up dreams is about as relevant to our lives as laying Tarot cards down on a table.  In fact, one woman who didn't believe in the ability of Tarot cards to be laid out in meaningful patterns told me she used them as one would use dreams to reveal inner discoveries.

Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own.  We dream about a conversation with a stranger, which free associates to a conversation about something relevant in our lives, so we focus on that aspect of our lives, just as a Tarot card with a stranger on it might.  But our minds free associate about things all day long.  Our conscious mind filters the jumble to focus on the task at hand.  I believe the dreams and Tarot cards don't mean anything, but the free associations we invent often do.  And sometimes this leads to revelations about ourselves.  Things like, "Yee Gods!  I really am a jerk, sometimes."  Well, you get the idea.

This is not to say dreams are totally irrelevant.  Sometimes we dream about things that we actually wish for or have previously experienced.  But most of it, for me anyway, is just a jumble of disconnected thoughts, and the reason why we dream still remains a mystery.  I don't believe experts have actually settled on an agreed upon explanation of the why.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 02:28:50 PM by SGOS »

Offline Baruch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2017, 02:34:53 PM »
"Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own." ... this is true for all human experience, but some pattern matching is more useful (see science and math) than others.  The fact that Newtonian mechanics is wrong but useful is a point of interest.  The jury is still out and always will be, if the patterns we find in nature are really there, or it is just useful pragmatism.  As a technologist I don't usually care if the pattern is really there (see Plato) ... just if it is useful in the sub-area I am working in.  But then ... I lean toward William James and the other Pragmatists.  Basically we curve fit thru data points, with prejudice ... there is no wrong answer with a given data set.  But some prejudices are more pragmatic than others.  Newtonian mechanics is much easier than GR for most cases ... so that is what we use in most cases.  What the actual "laws" of nature are, we really don't know ... lay people think there is more certainty than justified.
שלום

Re: My conversion
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2017, 03:22:13 PM »
Dreams seem to me to be mostly bits of junk cobbled together in an incoherent jumble.  Some people analyze them to dig into their subconscious, and often times find something personally revealing, so I think it works, but not for the reasons Freud tells us.  The cobbled jumble that makes up dreams is about as relevant to our lives as laying Tarot cards down on a table.  In fact, one woman who didn't believe in the ability of Tarot cards to be laid out in meaningful patterns told me she used them as one would use dreams to reveal inner discoveries.

Humans see patterns where there are none and make mental connections of our own.  We dream about a conversation with a stranger, which free associates to a conversation about something relevant in our lives, so we focus on that aspect of our lives, just as a Tarot card with a stranger on it might.  But our minds free associate about things all day long.  Our conscious mind filters the jumble to focus on the task at hand.  I believe the dreams and Tarot cards don't mean anything, but the free associations we invent often do.  And sometimes this leads to revelations about ourselves.  Things like, "Yee Gods!  I really am a jerk, sometimes."  Well, you get the idea.

This is not to say dreams are totally irrelevant.  Sometimes we dream about things that we actually wish for or have previously experienced.  But most of it, for me anyway, is just a jumble of disconnected thoughts, and the reason why we dream still remains a mystery.  I don't believe experts have actually settled on an agreed upon explanation of the why.

I have high doubts about shared symbols in dreams, that there are universal meanings in elements found in dreams that are true for everyone. However, I do think they can be used to find what things in life an individual most worries about. Children tend to have more nightmares involving monsters because they are small and vulnerable, but when we grow up, those nightmares become traded for adult worries like showing up to class and having an important exam that you completely forgot to study for. The latter was really common for me, because my grades were the number one concern of my life when I was in college. I also noticed that the characters in my dreams would often completely ignore me no matter what I did. I'm a lucid dreamer, so one time I danced naked in front of a crowd to see if I could get a reaction. Nothing. It was like I was completely invisible. This was probably a reflection of my social insecurities, and a general feeling that people did not value my opinions. One of the things that irritates me the most is when I try to make a point and someone else cuts me off as if they didn't hear me.
"Birds born in a cage think flying is an illness." - Alejandro Jodorowsky

Offline SGOS

Re: My conversion
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2017, 09:55:54 PM »
I have high doubts about shared symbols in dreams, that there are universal meanings in elements found in dreams that are true for everyone. However, I do think they can be used to find what things in life an individual most worries about.
After I quit drinking and promised myself I'd never pick up another, something to which I was committed, but still fearful that I could have a slip, I would occasionally have drunk dreams.  The dream would skip the part where I was in the act of drinking and just begin with me being drunk and then realizing I had fucked up.  Then I would become angry with myself for being so stupid, angry to the point of fury that I had let it happen.  Then I would wake up, realize that it was just a dream, but still be unable to shake the dream anger.  It would go away after a minute or two.  It was weird the way the anger would persist, even when I knew it was just a dream, which was also unusually vivid for me.  I had maybe 10 of those over a 5 year period, and then I quit having them.

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2017, 11:18:49 AM »
I have had paranormal experiences too, in dreams and in the hypnogogic/hypnopompic state.  But I am too tied to normal consciousness to say more than "That's interesting".  I have had experience with Tarot cards (occult) and Buddhism (Zen) too.  And Freemasonry and Christianity.  Contrary to any expectation earlier in my life, I discovered that being a Jewish heretic, was closest to who I am ... though I still carry bits from all my previous experiences, including atheism when I was in college.  I have always been interested in Comparative Religion (because cultural anthropology), and still am, though I spend more time in Jewish sources of meaning.

I wish you, and anyone else, well ... on your life's journey.  But don't take your individual experience as being normative for anyone else.  And as you age and grow ... you might not be done seeking yet.

This happened 28+ years ago.. and I have experienced all sorts of "other" things, which is why I said in the beginning we need the bible to frame out and vet our experiences.

I have no doubt joseph smith saw what he claim at least to a degree as well as mohamad, but they believed the hype the messenger was selling and follow their own prideful interpretations.

That said i do beleve that I am no one special and God has this or something like this for anyone who simly seeks the truth and asks.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2017, 11:39:17 AM »
Well, Drich , am I supposed to take this as proof of some sort?
Absolutly not. This is what God did for me just to get my attention. He has stuff for you specifically that will trn you world on it's er in such aways as to know only God could be doing this, and only God can get you out. You want absolute proof all of this is real ask God to sit you down in Hell. I promise He will, just can't say you will get a return ticket. or You can seek God on His terms and let him play out what he has instore for you to establish and maintain your Beliefs!

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  Your deluded vision is not any kind of proof for me
-Not meant to be it was for me. All I can do is show you where to find your version of this proof.

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-other than maybe you could use some professional help.
Funny you should say that my best friend/best man at my weeding is a psychologist.. He said I am completely nuts, or God help us all to avoid such a fate, if I'm telling the truth.
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  My first question would be why would god grant you a glimpse of the 'real' world?
  I asked this for a long long time and found Luke 11.. after the Lord's prayer was the parable about the neighbor begging for bread after hours. I wanted the truth and demanded the truth from God and or the followers he put infront of me... I can only assume that if I had such zeal to beat it out of a christian, then like paul I would not run when people in my place tryied to beat it out of me...

But in short/for sure I simply Ask Sought and knocked till God gave me what I was looking for.

I'm NOT special as I simply followed the direction provided by Him to access Him/The Holy Spirit. I didn't do it my way I did it His even though they were the same.

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Why would he not do this for everybody?
Like you not everyone wants this. they have a pic of God they keep in a box and like for him to stay there because the world is easier for them to deal with this way.

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Oh, I keep forgetting--god is not about fairness, just punishing.
God is not about your fairness., he is about humility and submission. You nor I will ever dictate to God. He is not our friend He is not a genie He is not our buddy. He is God. Simply treat Him as such and the world will begin to change around you.

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You indicated that your second chance was to include the love of god.
That I would experience that moment of all inclusive all complete feeling/agape' yes.
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And that is demonstrated by you as name calling and putting down others who do not accept your belief? 
Yuuuup. if you call what I've done here as putting people down or name calling then absolutly yes. why? because that is the best I can do. I am flawed squared and this is it.. if you want to have atheist treated better when they are being handed their sundae school theological arguement with it's teeth kicked in then maybe you should convert and be that shinning light I will never be.

Right now I feel I teach as Jesus taught the pharisees and other teacher of the law. think back at all the names He called them.. that is why they had him killed because he was making them look bad, not because they felt loved... and look what came out of it. there were a few pharisees who did convert.

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Really.  Pretty stupid god, if you ask me--and you do seem to reflect that god quite well.  Your version of love must mean demeaning others, name calling and revenge.  Sounds like Trump, to me.
And if i were to judge your 'morality' by what you have said to me.. I wouldn't find anything good to say about what you base your moral beliefs on either!
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 11:41:46 AM »
tl;dr  .....I was an asshole, then experienced oxygen loss to the brain resulting in some hallucinations based on my want for a father figure to make up for the lousy one I got, then decided that I must have seen god because who else would come to me? I mean did you think a wooky or a wasp would be worthy of "saving" ME? C'mon....I am a special snowflake that has his own god...imagine that bitches.......and I am here to convince you that I was right by getting someone....anyone to agree with my idea so I can have justification for believing this bat shit crazy ass bull-shit.

That all happen to jive with the biblical account of Hell which I never knew anything about.. I experienced it years before I understood Hell. but yeah crazy so you don't have to talk about anything else.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 11:43:37 AM »
I'm not sure what the aim of this is. You came here to what is obviously an atheist website and posted a story that you can't draw any rational conclusion from other then it being a religious one. Was it an attempt to convert people here?

Perhaps it helps you, and that fine, if it help you find a sense of peace in your own self, then believe what you want of it. I just don't see why coming here and telling about it, why you thought it would be seen with anything more then skepticism.

I was asked about the source of my conversion. the arguement being born into Christian gives you a better chance at being christian.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 11:46:28 AM »
nobody cares, cupcake.

Maybe you ought to read the responses before you speak out fruitcup. makes you look bitter and disenfranchised when you say something that is so far left fro the truth people can see.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Offline Drich0150 (OP)

Re: My conversion
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 11:51:41 AM »
youtube is full of stories of people dying and goin to hell and coming back to tell about it. Until we have the ability; like they do in a bunch of sci-fi movies; to see inside someones brain, we have no way to know if they had a real experience or if they are a propaganda artist.

Reminds me of back around 1995 a geology team for an oil company supposedly drilled into Hell. Somebody put up a video on youtube a couple years ago that is supposed to be recorded by the geologists of Hell. Of course I listened to it. Didn't sound anything like what the Bible calls Hell. It sounded like a bunch of people murmuring in a crowded place like a mall or airport lobby. Wasnt a whole lot of people sounding miserable. only one wmn screaming and no men at all. Some people believe it was lifted from a particular horror movie... you gotta ask "if it is real, why did it take 20 years to show up on the internet?".

I rate the recording of the sounds of Hell as plausible or a hoax. Plausible because 1. the recording is too short to say yes or no and 2. There is the faint sound of a man saying "Please help. please help us". Hoax because it is nothing like how the Bible describes it.

I rate Drich's story as a hoax until proven otherwise. There are just too many propaganda stories that are exactly like Drich's story to believe his isn't propaganda too

Here's the thing.. I not a prophet. I don't claim to be anything more than an average Christian with the same access to the Holy Spirit of God than the 'base model christian' is supposed to have. That means what God offered to me being a regular smow.. is also offered to you. Maybe not a trip to Hell, but He has something that for you will be undeniable proof of God Good bad or indifferent you will know God did "X" for you. All any of us need do is simply A/S/K pas outlined in Luke 11 for the Holy Spirit.

What better proof of God is there of God than direct access God Himself?

This Hell thing simply woke me up to what was really there. Much more followed.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Re: My conversion
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 11:54:32 AM »
Absolutly not. This is what God did for me just to get my attention. He has stuff for you specifically that will trn you world on it's er in such aways as to know only God could be doing this, and only God can get you out. You want absolute proof all of this is real ask God to sit you down in Hell. I promise He will, just can't say you will get a return ticket. or You can seek God on His terms and let him play out what he has instore for you to establish and maintain your Beliefs!
-Not meant to be it was for me. All I can do is show you where to find your version of this proof.
 Funny you should say that my best friend/best man at my weeding is a psychologist.. He said I am completely nuts, or God help us all to avoid such a fate, if I'm telling the truth.  I asked this for a long long time and found Luke 11.. after the Lord's prayer was the parable about the neighbor begging for bread after hours. I wanted the truth and demanded the truth from God and or the followers he put infront of me... I can only assume that if I had such zeal to beat it out of a christian, then like paul I would not run when people in my place tryied to beat it out of me...

But in short/for sure I simply Ask Sought and knocked till God gave me what I was looking for.

I'm NOT special as I simply followed the direction provided by Him to access Him/The Holy Spirit. I didn't do it my way I did it His even though they were the same.
Like you not everyone wants this. they have a pic of God they keep in a box and like for him to stay there because the world is easier for them to deal with this way.
 God is not about your fairness., he is about humility and submission. You nor I will ever dictate to God. He is not our friend He is not a genie He is not our buddy. He is God. Simply treat Him as such and the world will begin to change around you.
 That I would experience that moment of all inclusive all complete feeling/agape' yes.Yuuuup. if you call what I've done here as putting people down or name calling then absolutly yes. why? because that is the best I can do. I am flawed squared and this is it.. if you want to have atheist treated better when they are being handed their sundae school theological arguement with it's teeth kicked in then maybe you should convert and be that shinning light I will never be.

Right now I feel I teach as Jesus taught the pharisees and other teacher of the law. think back at all the names He called them.. that is why they had him killed because he was making them look bad, not because they felt loved... and look what came out of it. there were a few pharisees who did convert.
And if i were to judge your 'morality' by what you have said to me.. I wouldn't find anything good to say about what you base your moral beliefs on either!

You make all kinds of assumptions about me and the others on this board.  How do you know how hard or long I have asked god to come into my life and demonstrate that there is a god out there.  I actually wasted a long stretch of my life doing just that.  I'll not offer you my boring story, but suffice it to say, I sincerely and longingly asked for the god of the bible to manifest himself to me.  I'm still waiting.  But then it dawned on me fully, that a fiction cannot respond in any way, shape, or form.  That is the answer.  Your god and your bible is a fiction.  It is as real as Bugs Bunny or Mighty Mouse.  And just as provable. 

As for being 'moral'--there is no morality as you mean it.  Your fictional bible proclaims a fictional morality--and that christian morality changes with each and every christian out there.  Right and wrong is established by each society and at each moment of time.  Morality changes, for the rules of society change.  There is ultimately only one source of your morality--you.  And your morality is different than mine or anybody else. 
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Munch

Re: My conversion
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2017, 12:08:11 PM »
I was asked about the source of my conversion. the arguement being born into Christian gives you a better chance at being christian.

That is true, being born into a religious household or setting makes it more likely your be of that religion. As such you are pretty much indoctrinated from an early stage of development into what you believe.
Isn't that food for thought?