creation/evolution

[Blackleaf]

"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Just kidding! lol. I actually want you to completely forget about the law. I'm going to make a New Covenant that will allow you to eat whatever sea food you want, mix as many fabrics as you want...but not be homosexual! That's still gross! But anyway, I'm not going to tell you guys that. I'm going to wait for several decades to tell other people to tell you that you're no longer bound to the law. Because although I am not the author of confusion, I like to construct my Holy Book in the most confusing way possible."

[Baruch]

Typical.  Tout that you are following the commandments of jesus--yet at every opportunity it's I'll judge the fuck out of you, call you any demeaning names as I can think of; no turning the other cheek for me.  What that simply demonstrates is that you follow whatever you want and jesus and his commandments really mean little or nothing to you.  With every post you demonstrate that you think jesus is a fiction too.

Typical Abrahamics follow, or don't follow, the Jesus of their own dogma .. they don't actually read, know or understand the NT ... for some they follow synagogue/church/mosque dogma, or they invent their own.  Not that there aren't problems, if you read, know or understand the NT ... as an anthology of early Hellenistic Jewish polemic.

[Baruch]

You are right to a degree, but why is that you think?

It's because in Christianity our covenant is not tied to the law UNLESS you can't understand the freedom from the law you have been given. Christ freed us from the laws of 'morality' when he completed the law. this means we can tie ourselves down to the letter of the law or we can live free from it in so far as to not hurt our brothers who tie themselves to the law.

Atheists, agnostics and probably most pagans, also are free from morality.  This is not unique to "saved" Christians.  Cheap grace indeed.

[Drich0150]

"The Heavens and the earth" = everything, you dumbass. We even see God create ALL OF THE STARS in day four. This story is clearly not limited to just the Earth and its sky. The writers of this story literally thought that we were the center of the universe.

Actually sport it could mean either:
שָׁמַיִם shâmayim, shaw-mah'-yim; dual of an unused singular שָׁמֶ×" shâmeh; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve)

But as you pointed out water covered the earth.

Once again, you say something incredibly stupid and act like I'm being ridiculous. Okay, dumbass. Let's take this slow so you can understand it, okay? Actually, I doubt that, but let's try anyway.

I speak to you like a fool because unlike you I have personally studied these arguments for a very long time and know where the Hebrew stands in the argument. and I know what is and is not possible in the translation not based on commentary some atheist did before me, but because I have personally studied the subject matter for some time and can primary source all of my points, which I know you can not as you are using a very old and worn our argument that better smarter guys than you have already tried and failed to use on me and the material I bring

Does the Bible say that God took a little bit of water and put it in the atmosphere? No. It says God created "vaults" in the sky, to keep the water that made the sky in the sky.

Again Smart guy Hundreds of trillions of tons cascade down from the shy every year!!! This is what was left. where did the rest go? Let me ask you this know anything about mars? did you know NASA says there was water on it? where did that water go? once Mar's magnetic field all but failed the solar winds pulled mar's atmosphere which dropped the atmospereic pressure which lowers the boiling point and caused the water to all but evaporate, unless trapped underground.

Now what happens to water when you raise it near or above earth's magnetic field? the same thing. solar wind remove the heavy excess what's left= trillion of tons of rain.

It's not saying that there is water in the sky, it says that water is the sky. Understand now, or would I have better luck explaining this to an infant?

which is above the protection of the magnetic field. @ zero atmosphere, say approx 2 microns of vacuum, water boils @ -90*F which mean the ocean above the earth would boil off before it could freeze/turn to vapor only to be carried away by solar winds.

How those teeth feel? the one's I just kicked in?

you might be in 'the nile' on what just happened, but google it.. the rain, mars facts, solar winds, what happened to the water on mars, before you speak.

Science: the double edged sword making God plausible since day 2 of creation

[Baruch]

And this typical zian post underscores what all theists do--cherry pick.  The babble was quite cleverly assembled from a huge pile of writings to allow the leaders to pick and chose on every subject no matter which way they want to go.  Your fictional jesus can go to war--condemn war; be violent or not; beat plow shares into swords or sell for shirts.  Anything you want your Bugs Bunny to do he can do. 

you taut reading the bible for a single subject matter, which is the way the leaders of all ages want you to do.  If one reads it from start to finish, it is quite obvious that it can be made to say whatever that particular leader wants it to say.  It is ALL about power and money--nothing else.

The Torah we have was put together by Ezra, while Judah was a province of the Persian Empire.  While the Persians were religiously tolerant, they appointed ethnarcs to rule over selected theocratic populations, like Judah.  Ezra was the ethnarc appointed by the Shah of Persia.  Ezra was (per extra biblical material) inspired to write the entire Torah, dictated from a heavenly copy by an angel (sound familiar?) ... but in fact it is cobbed together by Ezra from various Judah and Israel materials prior to the Babylonian Exile.  Ezra's purpose was to give the first Zionists (the elite returning from Babylonian Exile) the power to lord it over the Am HaEretz .. the common people who were left in Judah by the Babylonians, who never went into exile.  We would call these Palestinians .. in modern circumstances .. when history repeated itself with the second Zionists.  The modern Zionists aren't independent either, they are there to pacify the locals for the Anglo-American Empire.  The other purpose of Ezra as to marginalize the mixed ethnic Samaritans in what used to be Israel.  The Israelites had suffered exile earlier and longer than the Judahites ... but they also had survivors who were the Jews in N Iraq and in Iran.  Most of the Judahite exiles in Babylon, stayed where they were at ... and formed the Jews in S Iraq and in Iran.  The Samaritans were mixed ethnicity ... but just barely.  Their Am HaEretz (common folk) were made to intermarry with other Semites from Syria, brought in by the Assyrians.

The Samaritans had their own Torah, similar to the Zionist Torah ... but they didn't have the other books that later became a part of rabbinic Judaism.  Ironically today, the surviving Samaritans are the most genuine Jews on the planet, in terms of actually following Torah (including sacrificing lambs at Passover).  Rabbinic Judaism, after 200 CE, went its own way, though not without dissenters.  One of the more recent dissenters, Baruch Spinoza, was part of the spark that created the Enlightenment after 1700 CE.

[Drich0150]

"I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Just kidding! lol. I actually want you to completely forget about the law. I'm going to make a New Covenant that will allow you to eat whatever sea food you want, mix as many fabrics as you want...but not be homosexual! That's still gross! But anyway, I'm not going to tell you guys that. I'm going to wait for several decades to tell other people to tell you that you're no longer bound to the law. Because although I am not the author of confusion, I like to construct my Holy Book in the most confusing way possible."

What confusing about it? unless you are looking for strict rules and laws like everyother religion.

Rather once you understand there are only two rules to Christianity the rest can make sense.

1) Love your lord God with all of your being.
(which is why the bible is set up the way it is ad why there are so many different denominations.)

2) Love your neighbor as yourself. All of the law is now contained within these two commandments.

We are given freedom and not a bunch of rules not to run wild but to worship God anyway we see fit. Remember the one law being to worship God with all of our being. What if I were musically inclined and could play every instrument but couldn't otherwise sit through a sermon without sleeping? If there was only one brand of christianity one church and music was just a tiny part of it, would/could I be worshping God with all of my being? No. So what is the answer? schism and break off into a group of like minded belivers.

Like wise what if my best worship was in study and debate could I be made to sit through a 90% musical worship service? would i be full filling God's greatest command? no. so again I have the freedom to break off this group and seek out a group of like minded believers!

What does this have to do with fabrics and homosexuals? The laws containing fabrics were consider y the jews to be social laws. meaning laws one had to abide by to live as an OT jew. these laws had absolutly nothing to do with morality. they were like our traffic laws or our laws concerning running a business in our society. Remember Israel was a theocrisy meaning it was a religious movement and a state/nation. many atheist douche bags can not/will not recognise that not all law concerning the OT jews had to do with morality. they only pertain to living in a OT jew society. so diet, fbrics, treatment of slaves all out the window as they one were not moral law and two did not require atonement from God. one was simply exiled from the OT jewish community.

Now the laws pertaining to homosexuality were considered moral law. these laws/the 10 commandments cross over to a degree because it is this law Jesus did not come to abolish or change, but offer atonement for.

That said being gay is a sin but not the unforgivable sin. it is a sin like another sexual sin and requires the same atonement.

[Baruch]

Jesus was quoting Judaism.  Why are you a Christian?

[Drich0150]

Jesus was quoting Judaism.  Why are you a Christian?

Are you unaware of what Jesus thought of the Jewish leadership?

Are you unaware He called the leaders fools and blind guides? This mean Jesus was against the direction the leaders were guiding the jews spiritually?

Are you unware that Jesus intentionally broke the traditional observance of the sabbath which schismed what it meant to be a jew and a follower of Christ?

This is just one example where Jesus separates himself from Judaism

[Mike Cl]

You are right to a degree, but why is that you think?

It's because in Christianity our covenant is not tied to the law UNLESS you can't understand the freedom from the law you have been given. Christ freed us from the laws of 'morality' when he completed the law. this means we can tie ourselves down to the letter of the law or we can live free from it in so far as to not hurt our brothers who tie themselves to the law.

And once again you speak balderdash.  You make no sense.  But you are a theist, and you don't need or want reason and sense.  You just want belief.  That's all you have--so crawl back into your fiction and live there.

[Drich0150]

And once again you speak balderdash.  You make no sense.  But you are a theist, and you don't need or want reason and sense.  You just want belief.  That's all you have--so crawl back into your fiction and live there.

Then ask for a simpler explanation. ask for an example. ASK for something don't assume that it is jibberish if YOU can't make the connection.

[Drich0150]

It's because in Christianity our covenant is not tied to the law UNLESS you can't understand the freedom from the law you have been given. Christ freed us from the laws of 'morality' when he completed the law. this means we can tie ourselves down to the letter of the law or we can live free from it in so far as to not hurt our brothers who tie themselves to the law.

The difference between OT judaism and NT christianity is that "the Law" recorded in the bible was subdivided into 3 aspects. Religion/religious cermony, Social law/what it meant to be and live as an OT jew. and the Moral law.

Now ask what happens when you break the social law... you were cast out of being a jewish citizen

Now ask what happens when you break a cermonial law, fined by the temple or  more than likly your efforts were deemed unworthy and were given twice the burden next year to over come. What happened when you failed at the religious law? your covenant with God was broken/could not cash in on exo 22. coud possible sold into slavery

SO ask what happens to those who break the moral law. their version of Hell fire and brimestone. This carries over. the other does not. why? because with every law there is punishment or recourse.

Now on religious or civil matters it does not matter because the only recourse the law provides is excommunication from OT judaism. Remember they lived under a theocracy where day to day was tied into religion. So to ignore the can't eat pig law was to break a social law. which again meant you were not considered a cleanjew/someone to mingle with. But So what, we aren't meant to be jews. We are Christian (it's this whole other religion with no theocratic mandates/laws)

Do you get it? cermonial and social laws go by the way side because they only have ramifications in social and cermonial settings which all are gone since OT judaism is not longer practiced.

What is left? the moral law the 10 commandments.

Why are these left because they represent s debt that can not be paid by man. This debt is paid with life.

So Jesus pays that debt (It is finished on the cross) now even this moral debt has been lifted, and the law complete. meaning there is nothing outstanding the law has to collect.

In short 'we' through Christ own nothing to the laws of Moses (the laws of ceremony and civil OT justice) and we own nothing to the law of God as Christ paid all debt and satisfied what was owed.

[Unbeliever]

Or plain old trolling.

Hey, trolls gotta eat, too!

[Baruch]

Are you unaware of what Jesus thought of the Jewish leadership?

Are you unaware He called the leaders fools and blind guides? This mean Jesus was against the direction the leaders were guiding the jews spiritually?

Are you unware that Jesus intentionally broke the traditional observance of the sabbath which schismed what it meant to be a jew and a follower of Christ?

This is just one example where Jesus separates himself from Judaism

So, we are to blindly follow the folks who claim to be our leaders?  I am not sure that Jesus broke any Jewish laws ... he broke the innovations of the Pharisees however.  Jesus never separated himself from Judaism, he illustrated it better than the Sadducees or the Pharisees ... and they killed him for it.  Of course the Romans couldn't tolerate the Truth either, nobody can.

[aitm]

This fuck is a retard. But feed the idiot if you wish.

[Cavebear]

It's unfair to compare Baruch with Drich. They only have one thing in common: they are both religious. Baruch actually knows what he's talking about when it comes to Biblical interpretation, which is probably why he doesn't believe in it. When Baruch writes something, I pay attention. When Drich writes something, my eyes roll back so far, I can see my own brain.

Forgive me, but how does expertise in superstition (the bible or any other religious text) mean anything other than that person has learned the best defenses against rational thought and reality?

Baruch spouts articulate superstition, Drich does not.  But is articulate superstition any more real than utterly dumb superstition?