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questions and answers anyone?

Started by Drich0150, June 15, 2017, 05:41:12 PM

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Baruch

Quote from: Sal1981 on June 26, 2017, 07:54:12 PM
What? Where do you get these reasoning from, for starters?

Grasping for straws are we?

Extrapolation is always more risky than interpolation.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

fencerider

honestly if a real god showed up, it wouldn't bother me if he was as tempermental as Zeus. I wasn't taught anything about god being all powerful at anything before I was old enough to question the necessity of the feat.... probably in high school

I already know that the Bible says he is Alpha and Omega, which has nothing to do with blood atonement. The discussion was then about the necessity of blood atonement.
Quote from: Drich0150 on June 26, 2017, 04:27:45 PMbeing the alpha and omega put God in the position of supreme power without danger of paradox or conflict.
So you're saying that when the only way for him to deal with sin is to kill his son he is not in conflict? How do you not see the act of killing his son as sick? (oh lordy, I just figured it out. god got some serious mental illness)

It doesn't matter much that this particular god has a mental illness cause he ain't ever showed up. I don't know how far Blackleaf went to find god ( I remember he was a youth leader and assistant pastor or something like that), but I've taken a few extremes for me. Short of getting in a space shuttle and going for a look I can say aint no god around these parts.

"Do you believe in god?", is not a proper English sentence. Unless you believe that, "Do you believe in apple?", is a proper English sentence.

Blackleaf

Quote from: fencerider on June 27, 2017, 01:22:30 AMIt doesn't matter much that this particular god has a mental illness cause he ain't ever showed up. I don't know how far Blackleaf went to find god ( I remember he was a youth leader and assistant pastor or something like that), but I've taken a few extremes for me. Short of getting in a space shuttle and going for a look I can say aint no god around these parts.

Youth leader, skit writer and director, singer, leader of student-service tech team, Sunday school teacher, Vacation Bible School volunteer, choir member, camera man, and general yes-man for when something needed to be done. While I was raised in a Christian environment, I had my "conversion experience" in my late teens, when I had a genuine experience where I dedicated my life to serving God. And despite all I had done gladly in service to God, no matter how much I prayed for guidance, God's presence remained completely absent.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Baruch

Quote from: fencerider on June 27, 2017, 01:22:30 AM
honestly if a real god showed up, it wouldn't bother me if he was as tempermental as Zeus. I wasn't taught anything about god being all powerful at anything before I was old enough to question the necessity of the feat.... probably in high school

I already know that the Bible says he is Alpha and Omega, which has nothing to do with blood atonement. The discussion was then about the necessity of blood atonement.So you're saying that when the only way for him to deal with sin is to kill his son he is not in conflict? How do you not see the act of killing his son as sick? (oh lordy, I just figured it out. god got some serious mental illness)

It doesn't matter much that this particular god has a mental illness cause he ain't ever showed up. I don't know how far Blackleaf went to find god ( I remember he was a youth leader and assistant pastor or something like that), but I've taken a few extremes for me. Short of getting in a space shuttle and going for a look I can say aint no god around these parts.

Spock's brother proved that you can't find G-d even at the center of the Milky Way ;-)  And no, G-d doesn't need a starship ... Kirk was right about that!  When the human creator of warp drive wandered about the galaxy in old age, he didn't find G-d, he found an energy being, who happened to be a girl, who liked to touch him in all the right places ;-))
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Baruch

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 27, 2017, 02:15:08 AM
Youth leader, skit writer and director, singer, leader of student-service tech team, Sunday school teacher, Vacation Bible School volunteer, choir member, camera man, and general yes-man for when something needed to be done. While I was raised in a Christian environment, I had my "conversion experience" in my late teens, when I had a genuine experience where I dedicated my life to serving God. And despite all I had done gladly in service to God, no matter how much I prayed for guidance, God's presence remained completely absent.

You saw the image of G-d anytime you looked in the mirror, or in the face of another human or ... tselem elohim aka demigod.

You were misled as to what the face of G-d looks like (Jesus was quite clear on this, did you read that, about what does the Father look like?).  I sometimes look for my glasses, when they are on my own nose.  So don't feel bad about this.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

SGOS

The holy men that created a blood thirsty god were con men, just as the modern day holy men.  They bamboozled people into thinking they were/are the spokesmen of God and that they have some kind of holy hot line to the Big Guy, and by designating themselves as the administrators of blood atonement doing the "work of God," they could gain support for the torture and abuse from which they derived perverse pleasure.  People believed it and still do, because of ignorance and possibly a bit of sick perversion of their own.  Actually, God is not a sick pervert.  He doesn't appear to even exist in the first place.  But the people who originally claimed to speak for him were, and in their defense they lived in a barbaric culture.

Some people are disgusted by torture and recognize it as in conflict with the concept of a protecting father, so the concept that God can be sick purveyor of misery is explained through a paradox:  It is done as an ultimate act of love.  Some of the secondary contradictions from such and illogical claim need to be reconciled also, but at some point, apologetics requires that a people stop questioning.  Indeed, it requires a cessation of thinking.  This is a safety valve people will use when they become overwhelmed with contradiction and nonsense.

Baruch

Quote from: SGOS on June 27, 2017, 06:54:42 AM
The holy men that created a blood thirsty god were con men, just as the modern day holy men.  They bamboozled people into thinking they were/are the spokesmen of God and that they have some kind of holy hot line to the Big Guy, and by designating themselves as the administrators of blood atonement doing the "work of God," they could gain support for the torture and abuse from which they derived perverse pleasure.  People believed it and still do, because of ignorance and possibly a bit of sick perversion of their own.  Actually, God is not a sick pervert.  He doesn't appear to even exist in the first place.  But the people who originally claimed to speak for him were, and in their defense they lived in a barbaric culture.

Some people are disgusted by torture and recognize it as in conflict with the concept of a protecting father, so the concept that God can be sick purveyor of misery is explained through a paradox:  It is done as an ultimate act of love.  Some of the secondary contradictions from such and illogical claim need to be reconciled also, but at some point, apologetics requires that a people stop questioning.  Indeed, it requires a cessation of thinking.  This is a safety valve people will use when they become overwhelmed with contradiction and nonsense.

If anyone supports either side in the Syrian civil war ... they live in a barbaric culture now.  Also anyone who plays follow the leader.  Common sense is the accumulation of prejudice you get by the time you are 18.  It works the same for everyone.
Ha’át’íísh baa naniná?
Azee’ Å,a’ish nanídį́į́h?
Táadoo ánít’iní.
What are you doing?
Are you taking any medications?
Don't do that.

Drich0150

Quote from: fencerider on June 27, 2017, 01:22:30 AM
honestly if a real god showed up, it wouldn't bother me if he was as tempermental as Zeus. I wasn't taught anything about god being all powerful at anything before I was old enough to question the necessity of the feat.... probably in high school

I already know that the Bible says he is Alpha and Omega, which has nothing to do with blood atonement.
Actually it does. it says God can do what ever the F God wants to do. That God's will supersedes any need to demonstrate his power to the fullest in any instance. Meaning if God says He needs blood then despite the capability of His power Blood is what God needs.

QuoteThe discussion was then about the necessity of blood atonement.So you're saying that when the only way for him to deal with sin is to kill his son he is not in conflict? How do you not see the act of killing his son as sick? (oh lordy, I just figured it out. god got some serious mental illness)
No. as the act of killing your own son must demonstrate a level of greif and pain unimaginable to most, let alone the way it was carried out. The reason this was done is to communicate to each of us on a level we can understand the pain it caused God to simply 'let sin go.' So then when He askes for the most basic of omage'/respect we should have no issue doing whatever.. yet he only asks for respect and the reverence to repent despite the cost.


QuoteIt doesn't matter much that this particular god has a mental illness cause he ain't ever showed up.
Bwahahaha God has a 'mental illness' because he hasn't showed up to you. Consider yourself the center of the universe do ya?? now who has the mental illness.

Quote
I don't know how far Blackleaf went to find god ( I remember he was a youth leader and assistant pastor or something like that), but I've taken a few extremes for me. Short of getting in a space shuttle and going for a look I can say aint no god around these parts.
You efforts will always be fruitless. Gotta do it God's way only. Humility is the key.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Drich0150

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 27, 2017, 02:15:08 AM
Youth leader, skit writer and director, singer, leader of student-service tech team, Sunday school teacher, Vacation Bible School volunteer, choir member, camera man, and general yes-man for when something needed to be done. While I was raised in a Christian environment, I had my "conversion experience" in my late teens, when I had a genuine experience where I dedicated my life to serving God. And despite all I had done gladly in service to God, no matter how much I prayed for guidance, God's presence remained completely absent.

Because Salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit are two very different things. There are several examples in scripture where people are saved but do not receive the Holy Spirit. (not jumpng around and shaking your D at others, but rather the introductionof Spiritual fruits and the later addition of Spiritual gifts, and the gradual opening of the eyes ears and heart. to God.
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Blackleaf

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 10:22:18 AM
Because Salvation and baptism in the Holy Spirit are two very different things. There are several examples in scripture where people are saved but do not receive the Holy Spirit. (not jumpng around and shaking your D at others, but rather the introductionof Spiritual fruits and the later addition of Spiritual gifts, and the gradual opening of the eyes ears and heart. to God.

And what does one do to receive the Holy Spirit, oh wise prophet?
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

Drich0150

Quote from: Blackleaf on June 27, 2017, 11:19:25 AM
And what does one do to receive the Holy Spirit, oh wise prophet?

That's the thing... with the Holy Spirit we all become prophets don't we???

In scripture the Holy Spirit can be given by the laying on of hands of the apstoles, it can for some happen in baptism or better yet as Jesus says in luke 11:5-6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”
1Thess 5:21 Question all things and hold on to what is Good. This is a charge meant for those who think themselves Christian. We are to question the foundational as well as the questionable, and hold on to the truth. Because I've done this my answers may be... Different than the typical Christian

Mike Cl

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:29:06 PM
That's the thing... with the Holy Spirit we all become prophets don't we???

In scripture the Holy Spirit can be given by the laying on of hands of the apstoles, it can for some happen in baptism or better yet as Jesus says in luke 11:5-6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”
And isn't that what all snake oil salesmen just love???!!!  God will open every and any door--just ask!  The only reason that door isn't wide open is because you did it wrong.  Or not enough.  Or you did not tithe enough.  Or you need to be baptized or cleanzed, or fill in the blank.  Yep--christian ministers from the beginning loved that passage--and used it as a club to control the flock.  We all know you can have the holy spirit for the asking.  And if you asked and did not get it, then the fault lies with(in) you.  So, do it again--better.  And again. 

Once again babble from the babble which is fiction about a fictional god and savior.  What a load of crap--crap that is eaten daily.  Sad.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?<br />Then he is not omnipotent,<br />Is he able but not willing?<br />Then whence cometh evil?<br />Is he neither able or willing?<br />Then why call him god?

Blackleaf

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 12:29:06 PM
That's the thing... with the Holy Spirit we all become prophets don't we???

In scripture the Holy Spirit can be given by the laying on of hands of the apstoles, it can for some happen in baptism or better yet as Jesus says in luke 11:5-6 Then Jesus said to them, “Suppose one of you went to your friend’s house very late at night and said to him, ‘A friend of mine has come into town to visit me. But I have nothing for him to eat. Please give me three loaves of bread.’ 7 Your friend inside the house answers, ‘Go away! Don’t bother me! The door is already locked. My children and I are in bed. I cannot get up and give you the bread now.’ 8 I tell you, maybe friendship is not enough to make him get up to give you the bread. But he will surely get up to give you what you need if you continue to ask. 9 So I tell you, continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. 10 Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. 11 Do any of you have a son? What would you do if your son asked you for a fish? Would any father give him a snake? 12 Or, if he asked for an egg, would you give him a scorpion? Of course not! 13 Even you who are bad know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father knows how to give the Holy Spirit to the people who ask him.”

I did ask him, on several occasions. So either he was ignoring me, he was taking a nap, or he doesn't exist. And once again, your attempts to claim that I somehow missed something have failed. I was fully immersed into the quest for God, more so than the vast majority of Christians, and most likely more so than you, and turned up empty. Perhaps one day, you'll wake up and realize all of the evidence you have of God is in your head.
"Oh, wearisome condition of humanity,
Born under one law, to another bound;
Vainly begot, and yet forbidden vanity,
Created sick, commanded to be sound."
--Fulke Greville--

aitm

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 10:19:02 AM
Actually it does. it says God can do what ever the F God wants to do.

apparently he is very f-ing good at images of jebus on grilled cheese sammiches and the occasional toilet bowl.  Yep, dat be one bad ass god....lolololol.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust

aitm

Quote from: Drich0150 on June 27, 2017, 10:19:02 AM
  So then when He askes for the most basic of omage'/respect we should have no issue doing whatever.. yet he only asks for respect and the reverence to repent despite the cost.
of course, why cutting the skin off your dick is just "basic respect"... killing your son if he disobeys is just "paying omage". Forcing your daughter to marry her rapist is just "basic respect"... cutting off your wifes' body parts for coming to your defense is simply "paying omage". Demanding you kill babies and rape little girls is simply asking for respect and reverence to repent..."despite the cost". What a fucking piece of shit god....what a piece of shit follower.
A humans desire to live is exceeded only by their willingness to die for another. Even god cannot equal this magnificent sacrifice. No god has the right to judge them.-first tenant of the Panotheust