Abortion in Texas

[Cavebear]

I think there are reasons to think things directly, and reasons to pretend to think things for political purposes.  I accept the former as honest and despise the latter as cynical and hypocritical.  The people who object to the beneficial works of Planned Parenthood for the indirect reason of abortion assistance for political support reasons are beyond contempt. 

If they would state their actual reasons for defunding Planned Parenthood, there could be a debate on the subject.  But they would lose that debate,  So they have to use subterfuge.

And THAT is what I dislike.

[SGOS]

So they have to use subterfuge.
And THAT is what I dislike.

Perhaps half the time people cover their real motivations because they somehow sense their real motivations are much more vulgar and self demeaning than they want to admit.

I watched with great interest and satisfaction as conservatives fought the gay rights issue with a veritable arsenal of semantics and bullshit that covered up their real motivations.  At first they fought for the glory of god, the "true" definition of marriage, family values, protecting the rights of children. 

As they started to lose their grip on the status quo that carried them for generations, their defense  moved an inch or two toward honesty:  "protecting their religious freedom," but that was still a bullshit subterfuge for "I have to be able to discriminate against people who have done me no personal harm, because sometimes, you know, you just hate certain kinds of people and don't want them to have what you have."

It's kind of odd that now that their arguments better reflect their truly vulgar emotions, they are actually gaining some political traction with the "religious freedom of discrimination" bullshit.   (The power of honesty, perhaps?)  I hope this signals the final phases of the debate, but you never know.  These people have a lot of hatred for other people, and they desperately need someone to help them channel that hate.

[Baruch]

Jealousy and hate go back to Caine ... it isn't stopping because of "progress".

[Cavebear]

Perhaps half the time people cover their real motivations because they somehow sense their real motivations are much more vulgar and self demeaning than they want to admit.

I watched with great interest and satisfaction as conservatives fought the gay rights issue with a veritable arsenal of semantics and bullshit that covered up their real motivations.  At first they fought for the glory of god, the "true" definition of marriage, family values, protecting the rights of children. 

As they started to lose their grip on the status quo that carried them for generations, their defense  moved an inch or two toward honesty:  "protecting their religious freedom," but that was still a bullshit subterfuge for "I have to be able to discriminate against people who have done me no personal harm, because sometimes, you know, you just hate certain kinds of people and don't want them to have what you have."

It's kind of odd that now that their arguments better reflect their truly vulgar emotions, they are actually gaining some political traction with the "religious freedom of discrimination" bullshit.   (The power of honesty, perhaps?)  I hope this signals the final phases of the debate, but you never know.  These people have a lot of hatred for other people, and they desperately need someone to help them channel that hate.

First, something funny.  I'm getting good at guessing who will "like" a post before I see who it is.

Now for the rest...

When people hate something, it is usually not for the real reasons at first.  The reasons are general and hard to argue against.  Like "I hate gays because they are disruptive to society".  Then you start to pin them down about some facts.  They get a bit more honest.  "I hate gays because one was disruptive to my family". 

So you ask more questions about that.  You finally find out that one of their children are gay and they are embarrassed.  Or they are and had a hard time admitting it.

Almost any social question goes that way.  Different religions, different politics, different home styles.  Anything.  But the fact is that most people will slowly surrender their objections to others  in the direction of rationality if they are forced to think about it long enough. 

But there ARE people who will never let go of issues.  We call them politicians. They get one that puts them in office and they won't let go of it until the die in their office chair.

[SGOS]

Almost any social question goes that way.  Different religions, different politics, different home styles.  Anything.  But the fact is that most people will slowly surrender their objections to others  in the direction of rationality if they are forced to think about it long enough.

That's right.  I just latch onto the gay issue first because it's such a clear cut example of that social dynamic.  And you are right that some people surrender their objections and achieve self realization of their true motivations, and it's clear that this group does by studying the gay rights example.

But there ARE people who will never let go of issues.  We call them politicians.

Unfortunately, that is also true, and it's true of some non politicians too.  Some because their true motivations are much more ingrained, and some because they are manipulated in a large part by the politicians who want to perpetuate those motivations for personal gain.  You can't win them all to reason, but sometimes you can win enough to make a difference, although it is often like pulling teeth.