Author Topic: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views  (Read 1266 times)

Offline SGOS

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2017, 07:35:58 AM »
There is one other reason...who wants to identify as an atheist? A person who by most accounts is rude, arrogant and self-righteous. They're like people with extreme body order only they are unaware of their own offensive fragrance.
I've learned to accept my body order.  My hands and feet are pretty much where they should be, and my mouth and asshole aren't in the same place.

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2017, 10:51:10 AM »
In my experience, the self-labeled atheist tends to be sure of themselves, for the theist likes nothing better than to try and humiliate an atheist.  It takes courage to be an atheist.  It takes a sheeple attitude to be a theist.  You, my friend, is a great example of the typical theist.  Your own body odor (for you don't really have any body 'order'--nor mind order either) is so offensive that I can smell it through this screen.  As you well know, for you practice it daily, in most religions 'judge not' is supposed to be one of the precepts that is followed.  Instead, what is routinely followed is 'judge--always' and judge harshly; as you do.  As always, you simply are what most theists are--hypocrites.

I think you have mistaken me for a religious person. I simply have a different philosophical belief about the existence of the universe and humans. What standard of behavior does theism call for? I assume there is no standard for atheists since I get personal attacks just about every other post.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #17 on: May 30, 2017, 11:00:34 AM »
You can look up 100's if not 1000's of beliefs that have gone the way of the dinosaur due to provable facts and data.

uh.......that's just damn funny there.

You can't think of many right off the top of your head? Do turtles hold the earth up? Is the earth flat? Does nature abhor a vacuum? Is the moon made of cheese? Are the lights of stars carried by angels? Is there a rain or lightening God? No these once dearly held beliefs have all fallen by the way side due to preponderance of evidence against them.

Most atheists declare their belief God doesn't exist as if its an incontrovertible fact buttressed by an overwhelming preponderance of facts and data and they are justified in mocking and ridiculing anyone who thinks other wise. I have seen lots of mocking and ridiculing but I still have yet to see that overwhelming preponderance of evidence or data. I'm sure its around somewhere.



« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 11:06:58 AM by Drew_2017 »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #18 on: May 30, 2017, 11:11:25 AM »
Quote
The main difference being that these scientific theories became accepted when the evidence came out. 

BS. Some scientists to this day still refuse to accept the data and evidence that leads to the belief the universe came into existence about 17.7 billion years ago from a singularity.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2017, 11:19:36 AM »
Quote
And besides, it was largely answered by other AF denizens long ago (Hakurei Reimu in particular tore your position a new anal cavity) and the "debate" would be long over if you possessed the capacity to realize your mistakes.

Hakurei Reimu like all the atheists on this board has a very low bar but I give credit for the valiant effort. If he (or she) was a theist you'd excoriate Hakurei Reimu for his constant flip flops, back-peddling and self contradictory statements.

   

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline SGOS

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #20 on: May 30, 2017, 12:09:24 PM »
Most atheists declare their belief God doesn't exist as if its an incontrovertible fact buttressed by an overwhelming preponderance of facts and data
A few atheists do, but if you actually were listening to people here, it's not about a preponderance of facts and data against a god.  It's the utter absence of such data that makes belief an empty claim and not easy for atheists to hold.  An active belief that there is no god is rather rare among atheists.  The ridicule is toward those who can't arrange a logical argument, but instead try to promote a god with thin admonishments, personal testimony, arguments from religious doctrine, or special knowledge of the unknowable.  Their method of acquiring such knowledge just cannot hold up to scrutiny.  We understand the belief.  Many of us had it at one time, but learning that the acquisition of knowledge requires more than special gifts that allow seers and prophets to commune with the spirit world makes faith claims empty.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2017, 12:50:33 PM by SGOS »

Offline trdsf

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #21 on: May 30, 2017, 12:44:19 PM »
That man evolved by the guiding hand of God is apologetics.  It says no such thing in the Bible. Instead, it's "Yeah evolution occurs, but God directs it."  An attempt to excuse an ancient religious belief by making something new up:  "What the Bible really means is bla bla bla.  Before it meant that other thing, but we now know that it was referring to evolution all along.  In order to really understand what the Bible says, you have to sort of read between the lines."
And more to the point, they never address that if you have to interpret the bible on any point, you can interpret it on every point -- at which point, why bother with it in the first place?  If it needs to be interpreted by humans, there's no functional difference between that and it being a completely human work in the first place.
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning." -- Calvin and Hobbes
"I thought I committed regicide today, but I committed deicide!" -- Sadie Doyle, Beyond Belief

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #22 on: May 30, 2017, 12:52:10 PM »
I think you have mistaken me for a religious person. I simply have a different philosophical belief about the existence of the universe and humans. What standard of behavior does theism call for? I assume there is no standard for atheists since I get personal attacks just about every other post.
I suppose that is because you offer only attacks yourself.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent,
Is he able but not willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able or willing?
Then why call him god?

Offline Baruch

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #23 on: May 30, 2017, 01:05:20 PM »
BS. Some scientists to this day still refuse to accept the data and evidence that leads to the belief the universe came into existence about 17.7 billion years ago from a singularity.

It is OK to be skeptical, even a scientist, about things that can't be repeated under local experimental conditions (I hope).
שלום

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2017, 02:01:05 PM »
A few atheists do, but if you actually were listening to people here, it's not about a preponderance of facts and data against a god.

It would be about the preponderance of evidence and data if there was any! That doesn't stop them from acting as if there is.

Quote
  It's the utter absence of such data that makes belief an empty claim and not easy for atheists to hold.  An active belief that there is no god is rather rare among atheists


Sure due to the the lack of evidence naturalistic forces could or did cause there own existence, the existence of the universe and subsequently life. If what you say is true why the antagonism towards people who hold a counter belief? Its not a fact claim against a belief claim its a belief claim against a belief claim. 

Quote
The ridicule is toward those who can't arrange a logical argument, but instead try to promote a god with thin admonishments, personal testimony, arguments from religious doctrine, or special knowledge of the unknowable. 

I agree with that and those arguments from personal revelation do nothing for me. I also loathe the moralizing such folks tend to do. If they subscribe to such beliefs its for them to follow not everyone else. Apart from that it may still be true we owe our existence to a Creator. 


Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein

Offline SGOS

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2017, 02:31:15 PM »
BS. Some scientists to this day still refuse to accept the data and evidence that leads to the belief the universe came into existence about 17.7 billion years ago from a singularity.
That's because no one knows that the universe is 13.7 billion years old.  It's a ball park figure.  In the last 200 years, the age of the universe has been pushed back to much older dates on several occasions.  I suspect it will be again as we gain more knowledge.  Or maybe it will be pulled back a bit.  Scientists disagree on many things, but there is always the caveat that science is tentative.  This its major difference from religion which makes iron clad claims of ultimate truth, and the strange part about religion is that it does so without actual evidence.

Sure Catholics have come to accept evolution, and this is a major change, so you can say religion is a least a little like science.  But changing claims of ultimate truth calls into question all claims of infallibility from that point on.  Religions claim infallibility.  Science doesn't do that.  Science is not like religion at all.  The two are incompatible philosophies.

Those claiming spirituality, rather than religion are incompatible with both science and religion.  But much of that depends on what spirituality is.  I'm not knowledgeable enough to understand spirituality.  I haven't got a clue what people mean when they claim spirituality rather than religion.  I think it must feel good to them though.  And why not, you can light candles and stuff.  But no one has learned to make the spirits blow out the candles, so it doesn't seem to have much practical value.

I agree with that and those arguments from personal revelation do nothing for me. I also loathe the moralizing such folks tend to do. If they subscribe to such beliefs its for them to follow not everyone else. Apart from that it may still be true we owe our existence to a Creator.
I have no problem with you believing that, but I do wonder why you talk about it here.  We believe different things, you perhaps more adamantly than I do, but I feel no need to tell people of faith about my lack of belief in a creator because I know they aren't interested, or in the worst cases, are obviously bothered by it.  What's the point of having such a dialog with them in a theist forum?

If you're just interested in why atheists don't believe, you should certainly have enough information by now, and I don't see what more you could gain here.  Take some time to mull it over.  You don't have to agree with us anymore than we will agree with you.  If you simply can't understand, that's OK too, but I don't believe it should be all that difficult.

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2017, 05:40:23 PM »
That man evolved by the guiding hand of God is apologetics.  It says no such thing in the Bible. Instead, it's "Yeah evolution occurs, but God directs it."  An attempt to excuse an ancient religious belief by making something new up:  "What the Bible really means is bla bla bla.  Before it meant that other thing, but we now know that it was referring to evolution all along.  In order to really understand what the Bible says, you have to sort of read between the lines."

Quote from: J.S. Bullion, Jr.
Armies of Bible scholars and theologians have for centuries found respected employment devising artful explanations of the Bible not really meaning what it says.
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2017, 05:50:17 PM »
The only reason that bizarre position exists is because of the widespread view (typically promoted by creationists) that evolution falsifies Christianity.
Well, if evolution is true, then there was no Adam and Eve, and so no fall of man occurred from which man needs to be redeemed, so no redeemer is needed, so Jesus wasn't our redeemer.

Which seems to me to falsify Christianity.

Not that this is the only way to falsify it, as I'm sure we all know.
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2017, 05:56:26 PM »
BS. Some scientists to this day still refuse to accept the data and evidence that leads to the belief the universe came into existence about 17.7 billion years ago from a singularity.


That's because it didn't. It was 13.72 billion years ago, or there about, not 17.7 billion
God Not Found
"Never criticize someone unless you've walked a mile in his shoes. Then when you criticize him at least you'll be a mile away - and you'll have his shoes."
Ray Magliozzi
"Time you enjoy wasting is not wasted at all."

Offline Drew_2017

Re: Fewer Americans Than Ever Hold Creationist Views
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2017, 12:29:22 AM »
That's because it didn't. It was 13.72 billion years ago, or there about, not 17.7 billion

I need to proof read my posts better...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.
Albert Einstein